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Is the mileage penalty on 430s too severe??

Discussion in '360/430' started by scycle2020, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    I have noticed that even the 430 as a significant price drop as the miles increase..For example, there was a 430 spider with 20k miles for sale at $150k, where as one with 3k miles was asking $170k. This is about the old dollar a mile rule we use to say about older ferraris for depreciation. But the 430 has proven to be very easy to maintain and very reliable. This makes me we think is a better buy to get well broken Ferrari for tens of thousands less than the babied low mileage car that you pay top dollar for.
     
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  3. Oengus

    Oengus F1 Veteran
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    Sep 29, 2004
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    Agreed,
    I just sold my 360 spider with 52k miles on the clock. The car was flawless and ran perfectly. A well documented maintenance history on a high mileage Ferrari is the way to go IMHO
     
  4. TimsBlack16M

    TimsBlack16M Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2005
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    Tim
    Yes, the modern Ferrari mileage penalty is ridiculous. Given current built quality, this extreme penalty is absolutely unjustified. Furthermore, many owner's limit their Ferrari use and enjoyment for fear of accelerating the cars depreciation. What a waste...get out and enjoy the car!!!

    Tim
     
  5. Sareve

    Sareve F1 Rookie

    Oct 23, 2007
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    Daniel
    That's right! Refer to Napolis' sig, it perfectly sums up everything that you've said.
     
  6. fc2

    fc2 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 2, 2006
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    Silicon Valley Ca.
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    Frank C.
    Guys... you only live once and it's only a car!!! Mind you, a really excellent car, but still only a car.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't drive my F430 everywhere I go, but I drive it every time I can.

    I've now tracked the car twice. If you haven't tried tracking your Ferrari, then you don't know what you're missing. The car becomes this "other" thing on the track.. a very beautiful thing.

    Bottom line... drive it on the road, drive it on the track, but drive it.
     
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  8. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 21, 2008
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    I don't even know how Ferrari, or any $200K+ car, sells new cars anymore. Buy a year or two old one with 5K miles and save $50-100K. It's retarded. It's probably the leading reason I won't buy one.
     
  9. hifipj

    hifipj Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2009
    402
    #7 hifipj, Oct 3, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
    It makes sense to buy one when it's at the point on the depreciation curve where you feel comfortable, and it's worth it to you, for the cost of ownership over the time you expect to have the car. I purchased an '87 Testarossa in 1996 for 52k (lower than average due to a damaged rear quarter that had been perfectly and professionally repaired before my ownership), kept it for six years, over that time spent less than $4,000 in total maintenance (including a 15000 mile belt service), and sold it at the end of 6 years for exactly $2000 less than the purchase price.

    So my cost of owning an amazing, fantastic, incredible, makes-the-hairs-on-the-back-of-your-neck stand up every time you start it, 12-cylinder Ferrari for 6 years was the 2k loss I took on the sale, plus about 4k in services, totaling $6000. About $1000/year to own a Testarossa. People who bought new Camrys the same year I bought the TR, then sold them in 6 years, experienced a greater depreciation/total cost of ownership.

    But then again it's because I shopped carefully and was willing to buy something that had already slid well down the depreciation curve... much like '99 - '01 360s are now. If you want the latest technology and panache of something newer, then of course it's understood you are willing to accept far greater depreciation for the pleasure.

    Patrick
     
  10. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    So true...and the less people drive their F cars, the more the second hand buyer expects the Ferrari to have very minimal miles on it....otherwise there is something wrong with it...how ridiculous that driving a car 5k miles a year is considered high miles!!!!
     
  11. djantlive

    djantlive Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2005
    1,008
    part of the rapid depreciation is the warranty. f cars have all sorts of issues are are $$ to fix so warranty is worth a lot more than typical cars.

    as for the mileage, f cars typically need clutch replacement, hose replacement, belt (on 360) at about 15k miles. each can cost $5-8k easily at dealers. that explains the depreciation curve.

    buying new isn't all that bad especially for those repeat buyers that got their cars at a good economy at MSRP when cars were selling a lot over MSRP. these buyers take less depreciation hit and enjoy a 2-3 yr warranty which means less cost of ownership.
     
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  13. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    Mileage penalties for Ferraris are not new. It's been a fact of life for at least 20 years. Consider the potential buyer. He has 150K in his pocket for a dream car and is thinking "I can get a higher mileage car for 125K or buy an as new example for 150K". Nine times out of ten, he will go for the 150K car.

    Unfortunately, this affects the behavior of owners who then become reluctant to drive. Yet, on a cost per mile basis, it is probably cheaper to drive a lot since fixed expenses like taxes, insurance and maintenance don't care how much you drive.

    Dave
     
  14. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    The Ferrari market would be better off if everyone drove more. What is the warranty on a new Ferrari, 3 years or 9K miles?
     
  15. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    You make a good point, but the thread is more about the 430, which is chain driven and has much lower service requirements and better reliability than any previous Ferrari...I talked with the service head of our local dealership and he confirmed that they have had far fewer problems with the 430 than with previous v8s....
     
  16. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 3, 2006
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    +1000

    I wish I could drive my Fcar more. Just too many other things to do and I try to drive only on sunny days. If I can get out one or twice a week, that's great. really have no desire to drive it every day. ;)
     
  17. MamoVaka

    MamoVaka Formula 3

    Jul 31, 2006
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    Pano S.
    I think that besides the belt.. the 360 is just as realiable as the 430.. maintenance will be similar.
     
  18. The Ape

    The Ape Formula 3

    Feb 28, 2007
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    Ape
    3 years/ Unlimited Miles
     
  19. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    Very true, my 360 was at least as well built as my 4 porsches i have owned over the years...
     
  20. Steveny360

    Steveny360 F1 Veteran

    Sep 5, 2007
    6,888
    The only penalty I see is the guy who didn't put on the extra 17k miles for 20 grand, seems like a smokin' deal for 17 thousand miles of fun.
     
  21. The Ape

    The Ape Formula 3

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    BINGO!
     
  22. FJS961

    FJS961 Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2008
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    Frank
    Not driving it just to keep the mileage down is foolish IMO

    One of my favorite lines is an Fchatters tag ... "not driving your Ferrari is like not having sex with your hot girlfriend and saving her for the next guy", or something like that
     
  23. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    Agreed but there are owners like Phil who are not trying to protect values but have valid reasons to not drive all that much (like very long winters in Phil's case).

    After thinking about it, I realized my own habits are the opposite of most people. When I have owned Ferraris that I knew I would not keep long term, I tried to drive them as much as I could in order to get "my money's worth". The 328 I have now, I just drive when I feel like it because I intend to keep it indefinitely. My 430, which I bought new, I drove about 4K miles/year the first 4 to make sure any bugs would be fixed under warranty and also I wasn't sure how long I would keep it. Now the warranty is gone and I've decided I will keep it for the long term and I've been driving it somewhat less but perhaps enjoying it more.

    Dave
     
  24. TheMayor

    TheMayor Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    Vegas baby
    Yes, there is a mileage penalty. If you don't drive your car enough, it breaks. Garage queens are tempermental ladies...

    All cars depreciate. If anyone bought an F430 thinking it would rise in value, you deserve to lose money. You don't understand the real the point of ownership -- DRIVING IT.
     
  25. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

    Oct 1, 2006
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    not for all....the reason 2008 430 spiders hold higher values is the 4 year warranty on them. so you will see the values of all of them much higher

    Without a question the only guys getting penalized are the guys that park the cars in the garage and stare at them. Get the cars off the blocks and drive them.

    10k miles on my 08 Spider 3k miles on my 09 Scud and 4k miles on my CS this year alone plus I have a few others I put mileage on as well.

    As RoyToy states if you want to look at a car buy a poster
     
  26. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    What kills F ownership for most is there are people who buy and don't drive them. Those are the cars people want(regardless of boasts of not caring about mileage) because a higher mileage car is always worth considerably less. If you buy a lower mile car to start it means more miles you can put on before getting into the depreciation danger zone. Make sense?
     
  27. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    Dave
    I've done that in the past myself. Makes sense to me.

    Dave
     
  28. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    Time will tell. Pretty much any new car is reliable for 3-4 years.

    For example, I don't think the potentially catastrophic 360 varietor issue came out while the car was 3 years young (?), and the cheap-o interior bits hadn't turned to goo.

    Exactly.

    As I read all these posts, I can't think of many "Announcing my new Ferrari" threads where the guy posting about his new toy doesn't make a big deal about the car they bought having "only x original miles on it" -- as opposed to unoriginal miles. I guess it's because a worn out Ferrari engine is financial armageddon? Couldn't you completely rebuild an engine for the price differential between a 50,000-mile 360 and a 5,000-mile 360?

    I guess everyone in this thread is an exception to the rule, but from where I sit the low-mileage obsession has never been stronger for common, regular production Ferraris. It has little or nothing to do with reliability. Worse, the modern Ford GT seems to stop running at 300 miles -- tons of them change hands with triple-digit odometers. Maybe we taught them well.
     

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