Is this the end of F1?

Good. There are a lot more turbos and hybrids in the car marketplace than v10's and v12's. That's the future of cars and the reason for manufacturers to be in F1 is to develop that technology. You can argue that v8's might still be relevant, but they're mainly used in trucks these days and not cars.

For better or worse, F1 needs to be at the bleeding edge of car technology for it to be worth the millions in engineering investment. High revving v8's are not. Turbocharged hybrids are. The fact that they make more power than the outgoing v8's while using 30% less fuel is what's important and more power makes for a better race car. It has absolutely nothing to do with making f1 'greener' and everything to do with developing cutting edge technology that can be used in road cars. Also, only an idiot would judge a race car solely by the sound it makes.

So, more powerful engines that use less fuel coupled with less aero this year, sounds like they're moving in exactly the right direction, not the wrong one.

 

What was interesting in that study was that it has been conducted by experts form the environmentalists side...

As for the rest, I fully agree with you: times change...we may regret the glorious V12 and V10, but we have to take a new world into account. I don't know if those new F1 powertrains are very relevant to the common city cars, but it would be very good if they could be. I know that, as far as true emissions go, Formula One is a droplet in the sea, but it is the symbol that counts: it has to be relevant to a new world, if it wants to survive.
And that new era could also be time for Bernie to pass the torch to somebody else (and I like the pygmy very much, but it is now time)

As for the racing, I'm still optimistic; after a few races, it will find an equilibrium. I still miss the wail of the Matra V12, but it is gone (well, it still can be heard from time to time). No use to spend our life regretting "the oil lamp and the splendor of the sailing ages", as a famous french President once said...

Rgds

 

Yes agreed and same with Lightguy

 

The recent change in regs cost the teams huge amounts of money. Costs that were forced upon them, rich and "poor" alike. Allowing freedom of design would let teams decide how much to spend for themselves.

Regulation is always the more expensive route.

 

This!!!!

 

best sound: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtZhlZ401as&list=UUBzfdgfIAANfgP3xyhVaEfQ]POV: You DRIVE Fast the LaFerrari! - YouTube[/ame]

 

Don't think my college offered that particular branch of Engineering :/

Is this a fact? Granted we're only one race into the season, but have you seen/read data that shows who wasn't going "balls out" due to fuel concerns?

+1

I'm excited about the 2014 season. Huge new challenges for drivers, "anal engineers" (who we all know are the ones who make up the rules ) and race managers.
F1 is supposed to be the cutting edge of technology IMO. Anti-environmentalists love to get all fired up about how greenies are taking away their precious right to waste resources, but F1 "going green" isn't to save a few gallons of gas in the F1 cars. It's to lead the way for the future of all cars and to hopefully improve competitiveness amongst racers.

The exhaust sound isn't as dramatic as before, but whatever. Hearing 18,000 rpm motor(s) live is cool for a little while, then it gets tiresome anyway.

As for the "ugliness" of the cars... I don't think there has been any "beautiful" F1 cars since 1967 so again, whatever.

 

F1 is going down the toilet fast with a turbo flush.

 

Never thought I'd live to see the day that NASCAR sounds more exciting than F1...
GV27TIFOSI

 

I liked some elements of the Melbourne weekend and hated others.

Loved the squirrelly nature of the cars because of the big torque + hard tires. Made the driving ability/car control aspects come to the fore. Conversely didn't like the brake by wire/ERS feature - made the car unpredictable and took away from showcasing the driver's abilities. Kobayashi's accident and lot of other guys like Kimi suffered from too much or too little braking assistance from the electrical motor.

The engine sound sucked on TV. Also for engines that are rated to 15k rpm, onboards showed that they were being run @ 11-12k probably for fuel save/reliability reasons.

The fuel rationing was OTT. I think they should allow another 20-25 kg to allow more racing and probably higher rpms and less fuel save drives.

I think the ideal thing to do with the current series is keep the hard tires, downforce, turbos, etc, jettison all the hybrid crap and brake by wire,turn the boost pressure up to get 850hp, add another 40kg of fuel and leave it to the drivers to manage the rest.

 

And then you lose all relevance to road cars and the manufacturers pull out as it's a waste of engineering resources. Great plan.

 

I will give you the opinion of not only myself, but my daughters', a 21 and an 18 year old who loved F!. I am 56 and have been a fan since the 70's, attending 10 races. I crewed on Jerry Karl's Indy car team in the mid 80's when they had Cosworth turbo's and the smell and sound as you pushed them out of the pits with you hands on the rear wing was phenomenal. I have 35% hearing in my left ear and 65% in my right. Wouldn't change anything if I could!
F1 for a fan is the sound, the chest reverberating, sensory overload, 18,000rpm scream. What we saw Sunday was a cruel joke, to be played on us for the next six years plus.
But enough of my rant. The Future of F1 depends on young people falling as in love with the sport as my wife and I are. So last June I took my oldest to Montreal for the races. We said in a nice hotel in town from Fri-Tues to get the entire experience, races, shopping, food, nightlife, etc. My daughter loved the sound across the river of P1 and P2 as we shopped the Rue St. Denis, and couldn't wait to get to the Saturday qualifying.
For those of you who haven't been to Montreal, the race is on an island and you get to it by taking the subway under the St. Lawrence and coming up out of the Metro. We came up just as the F1 cars were going out for Saturday practice, and with the first sounds, my daughter looked at me in wonderment and mouthed, "Is that them?" I just nodded with a huge grin, as I could see the excitement in her eyes, she was completely hooked. She couldn't wait to get to our Grandstand 11 Row 2 to see and hear more. I kept telling her to wait until the start on Sunday as the sound would be amazing. Madeline didn't sleep well that night just imagining what she would experience in a few short hours.
At the start of the race, I was videoing to capture the spectacle for my other daughter who couldn't make the trip and Madeline kept telling me to forget about that and just, 'take in the moment.' She was right, and as I put the camera down, the lights went out and the roar came across the grass to hit us square on. The look on her face was all I saw, and I knew that as dear a price as I had paid for the trip, hotel and seats, I had given her a gift she would cherish forever. She later told me watching those first two laps 'live' were one of the highlights of her life.
Yesterday my wife and I watched the race and as disappointed as I was about the lawnmower sound, my wife was twice as upset She vowed never to pay to see one again and said if she knew what they would do to the cars, she would have insisted our youngest go last year. A few minutes later Madeline called me to say how disappointed she was, that this wasn't racing, and how could they screw up a billion dollar industry so badly in just one year. Our youngest watched the race and half way through said she had homework to do.
So to the eco-friendly, noise pollution, gotta capture the Gen-X crowd to keep the sport alive, you missed the mark, and lost a generation. If my fanatical F1 fan daughters hate it, you lost you last best chance. The hate anything our parents did, Prius driving, Itune crowd, never was your fan and the certainly won't make them one. Let's all watch as TV viewership slips 20%+ this year, and for what!?!

 

So what happened to Lewis ?

 

Yep...it has changed; change is inevitable, and I won't be watching it.

 

F1 used to be sport. Now it a world wide politically correct statement.

Sad.

 

Isnt that better than losing relevance to racing? What if they choose to run fully electric cars in the future because of the relevance to roadcars. Are you going to be celebrating then?

 

Just for grins, I went to the F1 site - Formula 1® - The Official F1® Website - and clicked on each individual race, where they have listed, among other things, the track records. Most all of them are from 2004-2005 with a few as late as 2008-2009 and two outliers in 2013.

This formula will lead to exactly zero new track records, I expect. Doesn't sound - hahaha - like progress to me.

Cheers,

George

 

Wrong approach:
The FIA prefers slowing the cars for safety reasons or they will have to add chicanes to the tracks.

Nothing wrong with no new records

 

How is it a politically correct statement? They've never said they're doing it to save greenhouse gas or fuel. They're doing it because it's more relevant to road cars and that's what the manufacturers want so they can use the technology development in road cars. That's why Honda is getting back in. Otherwise you get teams leaving because it's a waste of engineering dollars. There's no way Ferrari can blow $100 million on engine development if they can't use that knowledge on road cars.

If they have more power, why not? The new cars have more power than the old ones and use 30% less fuel, how is that not better? How is that irrelevant to racing?

As to the fuel flow limitation, that was done partially to make passing easier. Otherwise, the car in front will just increase their fuel flow on every long straight so the following car can't pass and hold it up the rest of the lap where the straights aren't long enough to pass. If they cap it, then it makes the teams get the most out of the fuel instead of just playing with the rate the whole time to make it hard to pass when another car is close. They also can't turn the wick up to 1000+hp in quali if there's no flow limit and saves a bunch of wasted development on building engines that have to be able to run 5 races and withstand bursts up to 1000hp (or however much they can get at 15,000rpm with full boost and unlimited fuel flow.

Red Bull is the only team that couldn't follow the rules despite being warned. The blame lies completely and fully on them, not on the FIA. They're idiots, imo.

 

No, you're wrong; I'm right. It is all a bunch on non-racing parameters interfering with racing. Like the ridiculous fuel flow regulation, which has already ruined the very first race under this new formula, and the equally ridiculous tire compound rule, which beggars belief, frankly. If the FiA values safety above racing, they should move on to bumper cars. I think they might be qualified to regulate that to death, having done such a hang up job with F1.

Might as well eliminate F1 and call F3 the top category, if there is to be no progress.

Cue MB Ad: "Our F1 race bred hybrid technology can be yours today!"

Me: "You mean the technology that is slower than cars made ten years ago?"

Cheers,

George

 

Well, in that case I guess you should have stopped watching f1 in the late '60's when they started adding safety equipment and all of those other 'non-racing' parameters they had to implement so 5 drivers a year didn't die.

 

Mandate V6 if you must. If turbo is faster/better, the teams will use it. If ERS is faster/better, the teams will use it. Skip the micromanagement crap like rev limits, fuel flow, total fuel, fuel type, etc. Believe me, when a technology is ready to provide a potential edge the teams will figure it out. If the v6 turbo ERS engines are truly faster and more economical as you suggest, the teams will find that solution on their own.

Part of the awesomeness of F1 was always that it was a real "figure out how to go faster" series. It was always exciting to see what new gizmo some enterprising team would show up with on Friday, then watching everyone else try to figure it out then copy it (or get it banned). Sadly, the era of innovation is over.

F1 has devolved into a spec series, and a pretty poor one at that.

 

Remember, the teams are the ones that proposed this spec, so they collectively did find the best solution and decided to implement it. They locked down the specs to prevent spiraling costs. If they left it open and one team ran an i4, one a v6 and one a v8 and it turns out the i4 was the best, the other two teams have to scrap their motors and build an i4 doubling their cost and losing a season of competitiveness. In this day and age, it's just not economically feasible. So the choice is either specify some parameters that the manufacturers can use to develop road car technology or leave it open and end up losing all but one team, and then it really is a spec series. Here we at least are getting Honda back, precisely because of the engine formula.

Also, I do believe a team can run a non-turbo, non-ers 1.6 liter v6 if they want. There's a reason none of them will, though.

 

The updates to the structure of the car are fine - I'm all for that sort of thing - but if you're deliberately slowing the cars down, at what point does F1 become the motoring equivalent of WWE Professional Wrestling? It's sure a long way from Mixed Martial Arts as it is now. At what point is it just glorified go-cart racing? Because that's the direction it's headed.

The safest F1 race possible is the one that isn't run. That's your reductio ad absurdum. Just ban the sport and be done with it. Problem solved. Forever.

I watched this creeping crud since I was a kid. Every time there is a tragedy and racers are killed, all the governing bodies freak out. "We have to DO SOMETHING!" Well, no you don't. The guys who race know the dangers. The guys who don't should just shut. up.

I wasn't watching F1 in the 60's, but I did watch the old Indy cars back then. It. was. AWESOME!

Any more of this driver safety crud, and F1 will be just a parade, and just as boring as a parade.

Cheers,

George

 

You do know the MMA/UFC has rules/regulations too. Even in it's early days of no weight classes, there were still some rules.