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JFK-palooza

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by Gilles27, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
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    Since I've got flu, I spent the afternoon on the couch watching History Channel's 5-hour special called "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". Pretty damn interesting. I'm thinking about ordering the DVD, but maybe I better wait until after I'm done self-medicating.
     
  2. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    I watched the special too...most of it at least. Pretty interesting!
     
  3. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    I was in school the day he died. It was very sad. However, had he not died, very little of what was done to straighten out the race issue wouldn't have happened. Johnson got the entire package through congress because of the guilt, and his (Johnsons) ability. Kennedy would never have gotten it through congress.

    Doesn't take away Kennedy's plan, but it never would have happened without his demise. Tragic but true. The true hero in the civil rights movement was that Texan, L. Johnson.

    Art
     
  4. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow Art, I'm impressed. I didn't think that a Left-Coaster type would be brave enuf to admit this. Did you ever read Robert Caro's books on LBJ? Very, very compex man. Basically, he was just as racist as any Mississippi cracker; but none-the-less, you're right, the 1964 civil rights act would not had happened without LBJ in the White House.

    Like you, I was in the 6th grade in Pensacola, Florida when I heard about Kennedy being shot (at recess actually). Sad to say, but many folks in Pensacola were not all that unhappy about the news. They don't call it the Redneck Riviera for nothing.

    Looking back, besides speculations over what might have been, probably the biggest impact of the Kennedy assassination was that it turned us into a TV nation. For perhaps the first time ever, the entire nation was glued to their TV sets. (Our TV was still black and white.) Having the entire nation see Oswald getting shot live was one of those tripwire events that changed us forever. Seems silly now, but watching TV used to be a special occasion that was rationed, like having only one soda pop a day.

    Anyway, I digress. Again, kudos for pointing out what may be unpopular idea among the pointed head crowd. Now, if I could just get you to recognize the genius of Ronald Reagan... (running for cover while putting on my nomex suit.)

    Dale
     
  5. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    I always thought it was the court that fueled the civil rights movement? It was substantially more liberal in that time period. The supreme court made several important rights descisions in the 60s that didnt have much to do with the president at all?

    Im just speculating though. I need to brush up on some American history/politics before I can really chat with you Art! That or at least pretend I know what Im talking about :)
     
  6. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
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    Gilles...

    If that is the one on how LBJ was involved with Kennedy's death, forget it. It's a hack job.

    Most conspiracy theories are hack jobs taking quotes, situations, and evidence out of context to try and prove a point. In fact, many "conspiracy theory" authors have published several books with different theories, theories that contractict each other in their nature.

    Gerald Posners "Case CLosed" makes a VERY strong argument against Oswald and that he acted alone. While he does have a few errors (of over 1000 references) and critics try to harp on these few errors, they are pretty inconsequential, he has so much information against any other shooter doing the deed it's hard to come to any other conclusion than Oswald did it, and he acted alone.

    He even disproves that Ruby was part of some conspiracy to "silence Oswald" becuase for that to be true, Oswald would have had to be in on the conspiracy to silence himself. He delayed his own departure (fact not disputed by anyone) from Police HQ for over 15-minutes. If he'd left on time, Ruby would have been at the Western Union down the street instead of in the Police HQ basement.
     
  7. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    I think all of it, regardless of what the opinion is, is fascinating. I'm a believer that there was a conspiracy of some type. If for no other reason, I think, logic doesn't really allow for one person to have pulled this off.
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Okay, kiddos, time for a history lesson, told from the perspective of a young boy who was raised by a liberal "Yeller Dog" Democrat Mom in the Deep South during the 50s and 60s.

    Point 1. Your Supreme Court reference is to Earl Warren, who was the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court during those years. And, yes, the Warren Court was the spark plug (note Ferrari content) that forced Congress to address the "Separate, but equal" doctrine. Simply put, the big lie was that it was legal to discriminate based on color so long as black and white folks were afforded the same facilities and opportunities.

    I have to roll back the years to remember those days because time has a way covering up the sink holes of our past. However, I was stunned during Condoleezza Rice’s speech at the Republican convention when she talked about why she was a Republican. Long story short, her father registered as a Republican because the Democratic party in Alabama refused to let Blacks register. I had forgotten that the Democrats (or Dixiecrats as they were called) was the party of racists. (I’ll let Art explain the history of Al Gore’s father.)

    But you should have no doubt that racial discrimination existed in this country and that most black people lived in fear. Black kids always walked home from school in groups to protect themselves from white kids who went “****** knocking” after school.

    Point 2. The focus of the civil rights movement and people like MLK, Jr. was on integration. The Supreme Court in the 50s ruled that the separate, but equal doctrine was illegal. Turned out that a bunch of white judges in Washington making a ruling and enforcing it were two different things. Hopefully, your history books include the picture of George Wallace standing in front of the school house door to keep a little black girl from going to a white school. That picture will tell you all you need to know about those days.

    Following the Supreme Court’s rulings, the racists (again, many of whom were Democrats) changed their tune from separate, but equal to “States Rights.” Thus, the civil rights movement focused on Congress (e.g., MLK’s “I have a dream” speech) because the states were doing nothing. This hard fought struggle led to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which finally outlawed racial discrimination.

    As Art mentioned, though, it is unlikely that JFK would have been able to get this bill passed. For what ever reason, JFK was not interested in domestic policy. More specifically, there is no record of him having much passion for the civil right movement. Instead, the hero of the civil rights movement turned out to be LBJ because he had the political moxie to get the job done.

    Ironically, within a few short years, LBJ became a pariah with the liberals as he got bogged down in the big muddy that was Vietnam. By 1968, protesters (mostly white) were chanting, “Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids did you kill today?” Indeed, LBJ declined to run for a second term, which lead straight to the Chicago riots and, eventually, to a victory for Richard Nixon who had a secret plan to end the Vietnam war. Unfortunately, Nixon’s secret plan consisted of bombing the living f*ck out of any thing that walked or crawled, but I digress.


    Point 3.As mentioned, it is worth nothing that the 60's civil rights movement focused on integration, not affirmative action. All the freedom marchers wanted was an equal shot at the brass ring. They were not asking to cut in to the front of the line.

    Nope, affirmation action came about during the Jimmy Carter administration. Some faceless bureaucrat decided that integration wasn’t working and issued an edit saying that color should be given a preference during hiring and promotion of federal employees. Previously, the federal government had given “good guy” points to veterans. Well, somebody, somewhere in Washington decided, that this would be a good thing to do to achieve racial harmony.

    How do I know this? The year was 1979, and I was working for the IRS during the Peanut Farmer years (Yeah, yeah, I know. You gotta pay for your sins, and I’m still paying for mine.) I somehow got ahold of a memo that spelled out the hiring quotas for IRS agents in Houston Texas so that workforce of the IRS would exactly mirror the population of Houston, right down to a certain number of Asiatic-Pacific females! But no matter how hard I looked, I couldn’t find the quota for poor-white-trash southern boys.

    It wasn’t long before companies looking to do business with the feds were required to certify that they followed affirmative action guidelines for hiring. The universities were next in line, and you know the rest of the story.

    Looking back, the fight for equal rights was a good fight. It’s just too bad that pendulum kept swinging, and we ended up with affirmative action. Perhaps that is the nature of our experimental republic. The pendulum keeps swinging as we cycle between over and under reacting. I keep waiting for isolationism to rear up again. It just about time for that hoary old beast to raise its head. But, again, I digress.

    But do read up on what happened during the 50s and 60s. It sure was an interesting time.

    Dale
     
  9. LRPMAN

    LRPMAN Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
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    IMHO after being in Dallas this year, bought everything I could about all sides of the Shooting. The whole thing is simple. The view from the 'SNIPERS NEST" would have made a Head on shot on Main street easy as opposed to a rear shot down Elm. As to who pulled the trigger? "NOT ME". If you think back in history the #1 person was always "NOT ME". ask any child about the broken lamp, who did it? "Not Me" so according to all of the books the answer was the same when the question was WHO SHOT JFK? all answered the same, "NOT ME".
    Case closed!!! And it did not cost you $39.95 to find out!
    Take Care
    PS Some real good points made!
     
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I have been to the site many times, but I'm not familiar with the SNIPERS NEST term.

    (One quick story: Once I was teaching a continuing education seminar to a room full of CPAs on November 22 in, where else, Dallas. I asked the class what was so significant about the date, and all I got was blank stares. Finally, one grey hair raised his hand and softly said, "JFK was killed that day. I know because I was there." The Gen X CPAs didn't have a clue as to what we were talking about.)

    Is this nest the book depository? Or are you referring to something else?

    Personally, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise, I firmly believe that Oswald was the only shooter that day in Dallas.

    Was Oswald involved in a conspiracy? Who knows, but I kinda doubt it. If there had been a "behind the scenes" conspiracy, surely someone would have spilled the beans by now.

    Of course, this will not stop the spin artists. There is no way to prove that something didn't happen, because, well...

    DrTax
     
  11. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
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    ROCK OUT!
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Three Time F1 World Champ
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    WOW! Dat's one theory that I haven't heard yet! Oswald was Buddy Holley's lost brother and Ruby was, uh, mad cause Oswald was gonna cut him out of an upcoming record deal. Rock On Brother!

    LOL
     
  13. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    Jordan:

    What Dale didn't say was that the Dixiecrats became repubicans. (Strom Thurmand is an example of the type who switched). He is right about the refusal to enforce the courts, but has failed to mention a great lawyer who had a little to do with the court' rulings: Thurgood Marshall represented the NAACP in those cases (Brown v. Board of Education, et al). His co-counsel was a jewish guy. Interesting how both of them ended up on the US Supreme Court. When I look at the midgets currently on the court, I cry over the terrible appointments by the last 3 Presidents.

    As for Reagan: he made solid contributions, but then so did Stalin. Like Stalin, he caused the deaths of innocent people (Central America, South America, etc). You take the good with the bad sometimes, and you have to find the balance.

    Art
     

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