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Just How Much Faster is F1 since 98 ??

Discussion in 'F1' started by FLATOUTRACING, Jun 30, 2004.

  1. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    I'll do my best "cut and paste" since it's a subscription service but here are some interesting stats:

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net

    The Full Decision of the World Motor Sport Council

    Wednesday June 30th, 2004

    The World Motor Sport Council discussed the current performance level of Formula One cars noting that recent accidents have tested the absolute limits of the FIA's latest safety measures (Felipe Massa in Canada and Ralf Schumacher in the USA) and that speeds have increased very significantly over the last seven years.


    Date Imola Melbourne Monaco
    1998 Practice 1.25.973 1.30.010 1.19.798
    1999 Practice 1.26.336 1.30.462 1.20.547
    2000 Practice 1.24.714 1.30.556 1.19.475
    2001 Practice 1.23.054 1.26.892 1.17.430
    2002 Practice 1.21.091 1.25.843 1.16.676
    2003 Practice 1.20.628 1.27.173 1.14.749
    2004 Practice 1.19.753 1.24.408 1.13.985

    1998 Race 1.29.345 1.31.649 1.22.948
    1999 Race 1.28.547 1.32.112 1.22.259
    2000 Race 1.26.523 1.31.481 1.21.571
    2001 Race 1.25.524 1.28.214 1.19.424
    2002 Race 1.24.170 1.28.541 1.18.023
    2003 Race 1.22.491 1.27.724 1.14.545
    2004 Race 1.20.411 1.24.125 1.14.439

    The World Motor Sport Council unanimously decided formally to require the Formula One Technical Working Group to propose measures to reduce the performance of the cars in accordance with Article 7.5 of the Concorde Agreement.

    If there is no agreement and the FIA is forced to follow the entire Article 7.5 procedure, the measures it will impose will be announced in October and come into force three months later, in time for the 2005 season.

    The following dates were blocked for the 2005 FIA Formula One Championship:

    March 6
    March 20
    April 3
    April 17
    April 24
    May 8
    May 22
    June 5
    June 12
    June 26
    July 3
    July 17
    July 31
    August 21
    September 4
    September 11
    September 25
    October 9
    October 23
     
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  3. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    45,886
    @ the wheel
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    Andreas
    Hmm. I thought the USGP 2005 was supposed to be on June 19? June 12 is Montreal, so USGP would be a week later, not two weeks later. What gives?
     
  4. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I assume this means that Canada GP will be June 5th and USGP June 12th.
    So, will the FCA Annual be the week leading up to June 12th or immediately following the 12th?
     
  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    45,886
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    Andreas
    FCA National will be right after the USGP.

    But I don't believe these dates are correct. I believe June 19 is the real date.
     
  6. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    May 14, 2004
    2,892
    OK I have a HUGE problemwith comparing those times. The tracks have had modifications made to them year after year. Some of the changes are minor but when you are comparing seconds any minor change makes a big difference.

    I think all this BS is being caused by small teams like Jordan and Minardi who keep on complaining how life is unfair and the whole world has it against them. This is a way to lower costs by cutting costs of developing cars and an attempt to curb Ferrari superiority. The teams cannot catch Ferrari by car development so they attempt to catch Ferrari by making their car development useless. The sad part is Minardi and Jordan will always remain back runners and no amount of whinning will make them competitive.
     
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  8. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    A 5 to 6 second delta spanning 7 years of development, and the FIA is already lighting the fires? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsports (the racing issue is a peripheral one to this discussion), and should not be artificially slowed down.
     
  9. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
    2,870
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    Payne
    Ummm, why restrictions on anything then?
     
  10. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    This performance improvement is all tyres. Return to one tyre make and performance improvements will slow down. Currently we have Bridgestone and Michelin fighting it out ... hence the big improvements.

    While technically it is interesting to follow it is resulting in very boring races as the tyres perform so differently ... :(

    Pete's opinion
     
  11. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Not sure I follow that logic... variations like that make for lots more passing and excitement as the advantages change during the race.

    Boring is things are too much the same throughout the race.


    I think the issue is that aero has gotten to the point that there is exactly one fastest line and everything else is just too slow... once that happens, passing requires a huge error. It needs to be the case that there are two very different fast ways through a corner. Greatly reducing aero effects and getting back to straight mechanical grip and you'll greatly broaden the number of viable lines... and the amount of passing.

    Besides, advances in tire technology are good for our cars; advances in wing technology and ground effects (tiny clearances) are not.
     
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  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Brian,

    The problem we have had in the last few years (as less so this year) is that the Bridgestones suit some tracks and temperatures and visa versa for the Michelins. Thus if you have not got the right tyre you might as well go home ;)

    The other problem was (don't think this is still an issue) is the Michelins take way to long to heat up ... by the time they do MS and RB have just about put a lap on the field (or atleast got a pitstop buffer) ... race over.

    That was what I was trying to say. I think it is more even now and yes you are right little difference help passing ...

    Pete's opinion
     
  14. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Payne
    The Michelin's appear to heat up faster than the Bridgestones...at least for the earlier part of the season. Remember JPM/MS at Imola?
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    You could be right, but the JPM/MS incident I now put down to JPM having a real go, like a racing driver should unless you believe Imperial83's views that they should just follow around the car in front happy to be er, just following the car around.

    In the end JPM's race craft was not going to work and he ran out of track.

    Not sure whether the tyres had much to do with that or simply JPM was driving the skin off his car :D ... and that actually is what I like to see every now and then, ie. somebody really trying.

    Pete's opinion
     
  16. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
    2,870
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    Payne
    Not only that, everything I'd heard up until very recently pointed that Michelins tended to be very fast from the get go while the Bridgestones were much better over the long haul.
     
  17. owsi

    owsi Karting

    Dec 7, 2003
    160
    Maryland
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    Matt
    This is an idea that I have seen here many times. My question is, is it possible to put real, enforceable, lasting, limits on the aero packages? My concern is if the rules change to allow slicks rather than grooved tires, along with a reduction of the amount of aero, designers will find spots to add aero that are not covered by the rules. Then, perhaps years down the road, you end up with faster cars than today because they will have slicks AND lots of aero. They say Ralf's impact was somewhere in the order of 70g. How much more than that can the human body really live through? Considering Ralf broke a couple of vertebrae, it can't be much.
     
  18. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    Los Angeles, CA
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    Jim
    It's not just the tyres that have caused an increase in speed.

    The average power of a Formula 1 V10 engine back in 1998 was around 700 horsepower.

    Now for the 2004 season they are around 900 horsepower; a power increase of 200 horsepower, or 29%.
     
  19. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Yes... as long as you make the goal NOT to eliminate aero research (that's impossible) but rather to limit how effective that aero can be.

    For example, you can require a 4" minimum clearance on the bottom of the cars. That is fairly easy to enforce... and severely limits how effective undercar aero can be. And a side-benefit is that the undercar aero that they come up with will be transferrable to our road cars.

    As another example, you can disallow any separate element wings... all must be a single surface with the body of the car. Again, you still have careful aero design, but you can't produce anywhere near the downforce that you do today.
     

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