Just Received Topspeed Headers, WTF?

Definitely not the same. We had the opportunity to make the switch to the facility that manufactures the Topspeed ones at a much lower cost, but passed due to quality. Agency Power offers a lifetime warranty on their products. There's a reason AP can't sell theirs for $899. There's also a reason Topspeed only offers a 1 year warranty.

In my 5+ years with the company, to my knowledge, there's been less than 3 warranty claims on the F430 headers quite a few have been sold.

-James

 

What about Scuderia? What’s the country of manufacture?

 

Manufactured in Taiwan from 304 stainless. Current sale price is $2250 including copper hardware, OEM gaskets, and shipping. Lifetime warranty.

The AP headers are not compatible with the Scud. F430 coupe and spider only.

For Scud, I typically recommend Capristo.

-James

 

Thanks James.

 

HUM? The temps may be accurate but the rest of this is pretty far off. Basic thermodynamics says total energy in the system remains constant. In other words, heat, motion, and light total the same at all times; if it is less you had losses along the path that converted into one of those forms. Let's assume light is zero (not correct because the pipes glow infrared but close enough to get started) so heat + kinetic energy at the exhaust valves = heat + kinetic energy + system losses at the exhaust tip (with a turbo you have to account for the work done and heat transfer, AKA energy transferred to the intake gas). Friction converts motion to heat, not the other way around. Sharp bends DO impede flow and the longer dwell time for the exhaust gas allows for more conduction transfer so it will cause heat loading at that point, Vegas is correct about it making a hot spot. AND the increased backpressure will reduce the power yield for the engine. There is NOTHING good that can come from that poor of a design/construction and a lot of potential failure mechanisms.

And yes, I am using both fluid dynamics and thermos dynamics. For the record, the 3 ways heat is transferred are conduction, convection, and radiation. All 3 happen to different degrees along the exhaust path.

 

All the guys I know that "tricked" out their STis went to equal length headers. That a very common upgrade when you are going for all out performance.

 

I agree. My 17 wrx is equal length but with any sort of exhaust it sounds like a typical jdm fart box.

 

Very interesting. I did not notice that on my set....had them 2 years now and they are great. Call them and ask

 

All the headers are made in Asia except Capristo....

 

Kline is made in Romania.

The options made in Asia are not all created equally either.

On the 360 side, the Fabspeed ones are made in the US.

-James

 

Fake News I tell you. Don't let all of that equipment in the Fabspeed shops fool you. Didn't you read all of the threads here claiming that they make them in China? Clearly the internet knows what no one else knows.

 

Generally speaking, you get what you pay for.... and not everything made in China/ Taiwan is bad or poor quality.

But for my 430, I put in a full Capristo header and exhaust system. While it may be a little too loud for my aging ears, it's a quality engineered and manufactured. No issues here....but that didn't come cheap!.....

 

I don't know that I've seen threads with claims that the 360 headers are Chinese made. The F430 headers are Taiwan made. Reality is, there's nothing wrong with that. Many, many aftermarket exhaust brands are made in Taiwan. As long as a good facility is used and good materials are used, the product is great. For whatever reason, all of the 360 options out of Asia are horrible. Bad fitment and bad quality. Fortunately, the US made 360 option from Fabspeed is great so we don't need to worry about outsourcing the production.

-James

 

James, I was kidding. I think they make a good product, quality, fit, and price.

 

Now that a way of making something simple into something complicated, the temp into the turbine is still hotter than the exhaust coming out of the unit.
Friction converts motion to heat and I would agree with that as I am giving you reading from a pulse engine, not a constant pressure unit

 

Well Mike, I am not sure how you think it is simple AND you didn't address the OPs question about heat load at the bend. In fact, I am not sure what you addressed or what conclusion you reached.

A turbine spins because of transfer of kinetic energy. Heat loss passing through a turbine isn't from spinning the turbine, it is primarily because of conduction. An interesting side effect is that the exhaust gas from a turbine has to be moving more slowly than the gas entering the turbine, probably not that much slower but definitely slower. AND the OP doesn't have a turbo, that was a tangent introduced by the response I answered so it really has nothing to do with the OPs topic.

 

Got it. Was referring to 430.

 

Most of the melting problems in Ferrari's is due to the so called soft touch coating that is added to the switches/buttons. Not saying it's a necessity but most other cars do not have this additional process. My Cayenne and G Wagon don't have it so there's no problem there ....but the old 997 has it on the radio and HVAC switches/buttons, which can be remedied. I believe Sticky No More has solutions for most of these issues.

Cheers
FN

 

The bend will not affect performance for our cars. My TS headers didn't look like the OP picture, it may have been manufactured on a Friday PM. OTOH, I wrapped them in Ti heat wrap so regardless how pretty they are or how much I spent on them, I will NEVER see them.
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I had a dyno run soon after I installed them. Here are the performance results for your enjoyment: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f430-dyno-results.550266/
Final numbers are comparable or better than the competi tors. Notwithstanding the tune installed.

 

Incorrect.

The more bends the less flow, tighter radius, less flow, cheated bends (OP's headers) drastically reduced flow.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying they can't/won't pick up power over the oem setup on this car but are you leaving power on the table vs an equal length header with proper bends? Absolutely.

 

Show me dyno runs or any evidence suggesting performance is hindered for the horsepower/torque the F430 produces. I’d agree that it would affect high strung engines producing F1 performance but ~400hp cars would be negligible at best.
I would love to see a dyno graph header shootout.

 

It's not the absolute horsepower number (still closer to 500hp than 400hp), it's specific output.

A 113hp per liter near 9k rpm engine would certainly benefit from a properly built header.

I think these cars deserve the best components. A header with one primary per side that looks like a lobster claw doesn't fall into that category.

JMO!

 

I think you missed his point.

 

In theory you are correct.
Could someone tell the difference while driving the car with “optimized” headers vs the OP’s?
I highly doubt it.

I personally think aftermarket performance companies either overstate gains or are intentionally vague, because they are generally underwhelming in a $per hp figure....or don’t really perform their best unless accompanied with a handful of other mods. It’s all about bottlenecks. Removing or expanding a bottleneck may yield significant gains. Moving it down the line to somewhere else, doesn’t.
Vendors are lucky we often are steered towards their products for reasons other than chasing performance which most of us will never use...ie manufacturers design defects.

As for the 400hp vs 500hp, I suppose it depends if you are measuring at the wheels or at the crank.