KIMI

FA is the most talented and capable driver as a complete package on the grid. Of all the WDC's on the grid Kimi is the least or is it Vettel now?????
Vettel's problems are of his own making for the most part as he controls his actions on the track.
Kimi took years and over 110 starts to find a win. Sorry but thats not talent in comparison to FA. Especially given the equipment he is in - Ferrari. Kimi is not at all that fast and is equal to Massa. Period. His legacy of personality is attractive but the numbers and stats paint a picture of a driver not doing that well in top equipment. Inconsistency is the picture overall. Ferrari actually kept him too long.

 

Talent means nothing, and I mean NOTHING (capitals) to me without results. People might rave as much as they want about Fernando's talent, truth is that it has not been crowned by results, so, in the end, it has been absolutely useless; certainly not the complete package, as something is missing.
The purpose of the game is to win races, and since 2013 Fernando has not performed exactly well in that matter: it took him also 110 races up to now for NOT finding a win, and not even setting foot on a podium since he has left the Scuderia: sorry, but without results, I can't call this talent. And I think that Lewis (and I'm not especially fan of Lewis) is a much better proposition as a complete package on the grid. No team manager has taken the effort to secure Fernando's services for next year, which is all the proof we need.
Kimi is in a different league than Massa: he has been World Champion, Felipe has not; the proof of the pudding is in eating it.

Rgds

 

Kimi had to fall on his sword on several occasions to support Vettel's pursuit of the WDC. To be fair he was denied two wins last season. I am hoping that the victory in Texas will reignite his competitive spirit--would love to see him out-score Vettel in the remaining races.

 

Given Vettel's trend of late - that is a distinct possibility

 

I don't think he would, unless cleared to do so: by Vettel retirement, or by Vettel being way back in the field, or by the team deciding that there is no justification to team orders anymore now.
Kimi's stroke of luck in Austin was that there was no situation that would have justified letting Vettel pass. But should it be a need for team discipline to apply, then he would abide.

Rgds

 

Exactly

 

I have to say I'm not sure they will; I have my doubts: Vettel needs a win to be reassured...
(Granted, Kimi should secure the Championship's third position. Even if we know, as he said when he achieved this at Lotus, that he prefers finishing fourth...because the fourth does not have to attend any official ceremony(ies)...)

Rgds

 

Exactly.

And until further notice Kimi is still Ferrari's last World Champion.

 

I have to say that I do hope that this "further notice" will be issued in a not-too-distant future...

2018 after 2007 would have been the same 11 years interval as between Surtess (1964) and Lauda (1975).
The next one in Ferrari's history is...21 years (1979 Scheckter / 2000 M.S) .
Hope they will break the rule.

Rgds

 

True or false with Kimi:

 

Sorry, but why does it make a difference for the qualy of a driver whether Lewis overtook Glock in the last corner or not? If not (was not in Massas hands) Massa would be exactly Champion with one point over Lewis as Kimi was...So being WDC or not is absolutely no indicator in between them.
That said I would rate Kimi higher as well but only when he is in the mood...

 

"Only when he is in the mood" that's not very scientific either, isn't it Mr.Singhof.

 

Who said it is "scientific" but how would you explain the extreme changes in his performance? Was he motivated in 2008 as much as he was in 2007? I do not think so...

 

Sad Massa is sad.

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I hope Kimi wins the final 3 races and heads to Sauber with a beer in hand and one finger salute in the air

 

It makes all the difference in the world, Peter. One won the crown, the other not.
Harsh reality, maybe; but facts. Results. One got the job done, the other not.
You know what we say in colloquial french about "but, if, would, should"..."if my aunt got some, then she would be my uncle".
Rgds

 

The story behind 2008 is not much about motivation, because Kimi was fighting for the championship until Spa at least. Its much more about Santander's interests in South America, which benefitted Massa. Finland is a rather small market compared to South America.
Rgds

 

But is he though? Remind me again which team signed him for next year? Because as far as I could tell no one wants him. Kimi had no trouble finding a ride. Just saying.......

 

FA declined his ride at Mclaren. Kimi will have fun in the mid field until he grows tired of fightng/crashing with drivers all hoping to move up to a top team. Ferrari released Kimi again Just saying and no 'top team' picked him up either.

 

It makes all the difference on his career, but not on the quality of the driver. Looking specific at Massa and Raikkonen and the season 2007/2008 the difference is not that one got the job doen and the other not but purely in the last race that Lewis once got the place he needed and the other time not. I do not see how this qualifies/disqualifies one of the two Ferrari drivers over the other. One had luck, the other not...
That said I still think Kimi was the better driver than Massa but I would not link that to the title they won/lost....

 

For #1: I specified Vettel because the RBR and Lotus cars both ran Renault engines so both Kimi and Vettel had the same powerplant at different teams those seasons unlike other top drivers (Ferrari and Benz).

For #2: I'm assuming Vettel will win races next year. If Kimi is beating Vettel, he should have a shot at some point for a win if he can get things going in his favor like he did in Austin + weather as well. They will both have Ferrari powerplants.

For #3: Your statistic is wrong. Only RBR, Mercedes, and Ferrari have had podiums during hybrid (2014+)?

Force India got a podium this season in case you haven't been watching.

There are too many podiums by the teams outside those 3 I don't feel like counting them. McLaren placed 2nd and 3rd in the first race of the hybrid era. Williams had a ton of podiums in 2014. Even Force India got one! That's not even including 2015-2018 seasons. Lotus, Force India, and Williams again podiums in 2015. Force India and Williams in 2016. Williams in 2017.

Kimi will have a shot at podiums over the next 2 years. A win will require some things (several) to swing in his favor. Kinda like at Lotus as I already suggested.

 

I didn't say top team. I said one has a drive and one doesn't.

 

My statistic is not wrong at all... I asked how many other cars actually did end on the podium and then mentioned that not a single one has won... what is wrong about that? So if you think Kimi could win in a Sauber this would be the very first other than RB, Ferrari and Mercedes.... and this in a Sauber!!! Dream on....

 

I just found this: Mika on Kimi:

http://scuderiafans.com/mika-hakkinen-kimi-showed-power-experience-masterclass-usa/

 

Good read, thanks. I liked Mika's comments re: the COTA crowd really appreciating the moment for what it was. I hope Kimi can win another this year, but if not I'll feel lucky to have witnessed him crossing the finish line that day.