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Knocking on & off center spline lug questions

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Smiles, Apr 26, 2004.

  1. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Nov 20, 2003
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    Are there any tricks to loosening or tightening knock offs?

    I have Mike Kumor's tool, but I don't see how I'm going to apply enough torque, particularly on the front wheels, where there isn't a transmission and handbrake available to hold the hub still.

    In particular, I know I can get the wheels off, but I want to make darned sure that I can put them back on tightly enough. I have problems with wheels leaving their hubs at speed. ;)

    Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks,

    --Matt
     
  2. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Go to sears and buy the 3/4" breaker Bar, Go to home depo and buy a precut 4 ft section of steel plumbing pipe...place the pipe over the 18" breaker bar and cover the whole legnth with Duct tape, as to not scratch anything. Remember the passenger side threads are reversed so turn clockwise to open. I actually find it fun and easy...The combination of a 180 lb. Man resting on a 5 ft. leverage bar is more than enough to break or tighten a wing nut spinner..........I bought the same unit from Mike...its a real nut saver!
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Matt -- Just have an "assistant" step (hard) on the brakes (with all wheels on the ground, e-brake on, and in gear)
     
  4. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Thanks for the advice, guys. That's good stuff.

    Michael, do you have someone stomp on the brakes as Steve suggests? I already have the 3/4" drive and a length of pipe, I'm just worried about trying to torque against not enough resistance. Although I like the thought that it's "fun and easy"!

    Do any Ferrari mechanics ever loosen or tighten center-lug wheels while the car's on a lift? (For a mid-1980's TR, for example.) If so, how?

    It feels like I'm missing something simple...

    Thanks again,

    --Matt
     
  5. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
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    So where does one buy knock off wheels and splines for a 308?
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    You're not missing anything IMO Matt -- (even though they are very cool technically) they are a bit of a b*tch/hassle/risk.

    Even on the 5-lug wheels I think it's best to do the final torqueing on the ground (i.e., torque to 20~30~40 ft lbs -- whatever you can reach just by holding the wheel by hand -- when elevated and then bring them up to the final torque value when on the ground) so I don't see what the upside would be for trying to final torque (or loosen) the single-lug design when elevated.
     
  7. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Michael, do you have someone stomp on the brakes as Steve suggests? I already have the 3/4" drive and a length of pipe, I'm just worried about trying to torque against not enough resistance. Although I like the thought that it's "fun and easy"!





    If the threads are properly greased There should be no problem in releasing the first 1/4 turn..Remember the threads are set up so that foward motion of the car always lends itself to tightening the nut in general, thats why the passenger side of the cars threads are reversed. You should be able to break the spinner with parking brake only, yes it does tend to lurch the car however it momentarily. Once broken you may lift the car. If the lurch if too significant then chock the opposite side wheels.I believe the reccomended torque setting on the spinner is 325 ft. lbs. or 1 beer belly thrust on a 4 1/2 ft breaker bar. Whichever is easier to do.
     
  8. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Thanks again, guys.

    Steve, I can handle 20~30~40 ft lbs on 5 offset lugs with no problem. It's 325 lb-ft directly on the centerline of the axle that I'm concerned about!

    I didn't mean to impy that there would be any advantage to mounting or de-mounting wheels with the car in the air. I was simply wondering if it was even possible.

    Michael, I'm not worried about breaking it free, I'm worried about properly tightening it when putting the wheel back on. I guess I'll just throw my belly into it!

    --Matt
     
  9. 348paul

    348paul Formula 3

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    Matt

    Just divide the 325 ft lb by the length of the breaker bar you use to determine how much weight is needed on the end of the bar.

    So for a 4-foot bar
    325 / 4 = 81.25

    That’s 81.25 pounds on the end of a 4 foot bar will exert 325 ft lb of torque to the nut.

    That’s the theory anyway!

    Paul
     
  10. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
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    Now Why Didnt I think of that
    Lets see, 325 / 48 inches = 6.75 lbs. per/inch COOL!
    Let try Millimeters for the Europeans on FC!

    That figure is a reccomended # for keeping the spinner secure, a 275 lb. rating will not adversly effect the car.check them once a month and I would not worry. the reverse thread/rotation concept will keep them from 007ning off the car!
     
  11. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    Paul, No Shizzle? (I know what a pound-foot of torque is, my F-Chizzle Sponsizzle.) ;)

    Thanks again, Michael. "007ning" makes me smile: now I need to find a pretty girl in a Mustang. (That's also good advice for checking the knockoffs periodically.)

    Here's an explanation of why 325 (or even 275) lb-ft of torque on a knockoff blows my mind: in fourth gear (1:1) that's more torque than the engine itself puts through that spindle. Yet if I press on the brakes, or simply let the weight of the car on the tire hold the wheel in place, you're saying that the hub isn't going to rotate when I torque down on the knockoff?

    OK, I guess. I'll try it this weekend.

    Thanks again, guys,

    --Matt
     

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