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Last 727 Passenger Flight

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by tazandjan, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Terry H Phillips
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  2. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    I like that plane. I remember flying in one as a kid going to the Bahamas from Orlando and exiting on that cool rear staircase built into the tail.
     
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  3. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2009
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    I went through FE school on that plane. I really miss them. I saw one land in Kansas City behind us the other day and it was a real treat.
     
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  4. energy88

    energy88 F1 Veteran
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    NürScud and Tu160bomber like this.
  5. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Jim Pernikoff
    I took the trip on a Carnival Airlines (remember them?) 727 from West Palm Beach to Nassau. Shortest flight I ever took - 25 minutes, a ballistic trajectory. We exited by the rear airstair and walked to the terminal on a red carpet under an awning! The plane was full of people but got off the ground in a hurry because it was carrying no luggage - all the passengers were day-trippers.
     
  6. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Jim, that is what the 727 was designed to do. Unload in the rear, while loading in the front for fast turn around. Wouldn't it be nice if the current crop of aerial cattle cars could do the same thing? Years ago I flew on 707's when the cabin was cleaned between flights, what a novel concept that is! I like the train!
     
  7. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    In the summer flying out of Albuquerque (5355'), the 727s could not take off due east and make it over the mountains directly ahead. Had to turn south to gain altitude and find a lower spot to cross. The current airliners just take of due east and fly over the mountains. Times change. In some cases the air conditioning/APU had to be shut off for take-off. Density altitude in the summer at ABQ often exceeds 8000'.
     
  8. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

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    That’s not correct. There isn’t a single Departure that goes due east out of Albuquerque. They all go south, north or west. If your going east you have to fly south and cross fixes at about 11000 feet before you turn east.
     
  9. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    There are still 727s used as freighters, even in the US. Zero G uses a 727 for their flights as well, although I guess that doesn't count as "passenger."
     
  10. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula Junior
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    I got a ride in the goZeroG 727 a few years ago, amazing experience. I was in the cockpit, watching the altimeter spin around in the dive was surreal.
     
  11. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    My very last 727 departure was out of Denver, and it was a good thing the runway was 12,000 feet because the airplane used about 9000 of it! Altitude really makes a difference.

    My scariest departure was about a year earlier out of Buffalo. The 727 used about 6000 feet of a 7000 foot runway before leaving the ground. I asked the pilot upon leaving the airplane about that and all he said was "We were heavy". It seems that as the aircraft got older, their short-field capability deteriorated.
     
  12. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Taz is correct... they used to depart East regularly. No longer, perhaps, but I haven't flown via ABQ for 8 years now.

    So perhaps you're correct also...

    Looking out the starboard windows after TO (flying to Denver) was always spectacular as you were parallel to the Sandias.

    Most props... Connies, Convairs, etc. took off east and that continued into the 727 era. They all turned N or S after lifting off, none of them could fly over the mountain.

    One TWA Martin 404 tried and ended up crashing in a canyon below the top of Sandia Crest when I was a kid in ABQ... it's still there,.
     
  13. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Robert Serling wrote about that crash in one of his books. Another TWA pilot worked hard to get the probable cause changed from "pilot error" to "unknown". It appears the pilot was the victim of a faulty fluxgate compass reading on a day when Sandia Mountain was shrouded in clouds.
     
  14. BMWairhead

    BMWairhead Formula Junior

    Sep 11, 2009
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    I flew out of Albuquerque last evening on an Alaska Air e75. I was tired and not paying attention to details, but immediately after takeoff, we banked left. The Sandias were mostly socked in earlier when we took the train from Santa Fe...

    I can’t say for certain, but it sure seemed like a takeoff followed by an avoidance move.
     
  15. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Yes... I think it DID get changed finally from pilot error to an equipment issue.... initially they were talking about the crew committing suicide, then error, then...
    There apparently had been issues with the fluxgate compass before on that plane.

    I was a kid, I remember the morning of the crash like it was yesterday, Clouds around the Sandias. A neighbor of ours was on the plane.
    It was to be a short flight, Albuquerque to Santa Fe... about 60 miles.

    The tram to the top of the mountain was not there then; built years later. Riding it now, about 2/3 of the way up, you can look down into a canyon and see the wreckage still there.
     
  16. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula Junior
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    Such a short flight, doesn't make sense in modern context with security, its only a 45min drive now days.

    Its really hard to see from the tram, you might just catch a glimpse of something if your lucky. TWA actually had people move the wreckage were it could not bee seen. You can hike up to it, I did it several times when i lived there, there is surprisingly not much to see.


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  17. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    The end of the 'N' number...

    N40416. I think all TWA's Martin 404s were N404XX
     
  18. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula Junior
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    I found a picture i took of the memorial plaque
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  19. 71Satisfaction

    71Satisfaction Formula Junior

    Jul 15, 2012
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    My brother and I would often travel by air as Unaccompanied Minors between our divorced parents. We became young connoseurs of airliners.
    The 727 we remember well for it's amount of takeoff acceleration.. at least the times we flew in it. And boarding or deplaning out the tail cone stair was very cool..
    In those day we could always ask to visit the cockpit.. Wasn't the 727 one of, or was it THE last airliner to require a Flight Engineer? There was a privately owned 727 I often saw at Hanscom Field (BED), Bedford, MA about 10 years ago. Sigh. How times flies.
    Cheers,
    - Art
     
  20. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    727, 747-100/200 had flight engineers. DC-10 as well. I don't know what the last airplane made to require a flight engineer was, though.

    Little known fact-- when United first started flying 737s, they had a flight engineer as well. He had to ride in the jump seat and didn't get his own panel, though.
     
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  21. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

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    #21 JLF, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    There were also a handful of 767s made that had a flight engineer panel believe it or not. Have a photo and description in a book somewhere.

    Here.
     
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  22. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

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  23. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Amazing!
     
  24. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    I would have thought that the 757 and 767 would have been the first "large" airliners without an f.e., but I guess I was wrong. Did all A300s and A310s have f.e.'s?
     
  25. JLF

    JLF Formula Junior

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    #25 JLF, Jan 17, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    The 75-76 were actually 2 pilot planes but an airline or two wanted a third seat, I think it was like 5 planes or less with a fe station.

    I think the A310 and A300-600 went without an FE. But not sure.
     

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