Last Samurai Movie | FerrariChat

Last Samurai Movie

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by WILLIAM H, Dec 7, 2003.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Just saw it tonight, Awesome, beautiful, brutal, poignant. Oscar material
     
  2. Nibblesworth

    Nibblesworth Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 29, 2002
    1,756
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    BillyBoy
    I'd like to see it, but I find the whole premise given in the ads kind of insulting. Almost like the Japanese making a movie about some Japanese Samurai who came the the states during the civil war and helped to win it.

    I guess samurai movies that really go in deep about authentic Bushido and what not should not include an american as the hero. Just my 0.02.
     
  3. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER

    I cant reaaly tell you why you are wrong without spoiling the movie. It really shows how beautiful & pure the Samurai philosophy was while at the same time showing the extreme ferocity & skill of the Samurai & their allegiance to the Emperor & honor above all else.

    Historically the Samurai used firearms for a short period but they eventually abandoned firearms because any moron can operate a firearm while it takes decades of skill to master a Katana or hand to hand combat, which they saw as much more honorable.

    I dont know enough about thier history to know if the American Hero part was accurate. He wasnt so much a hero as a narrator/student/guide though
     
  4. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,931
    Arlington, VA
    I plan on seeing this, but I'm not sure I agree with this statement :) There's an interesting review in the Washington Post from one of my favorite movie critics. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37137-2003Dec4.html

    A couple interesting quotes:

    "...the samurai, after all, were but a small part of Japan; they represented, by the 19th century, obstructivist, regressive values. They really can't, or shouldn't, be sentimentalized."

    "To Zwick, the way of the samurai is akin to the way of purity: It stands for nobility, service, self-sacrifice, denial of ego, tradition. It did, of course, but only for a small member of the elite who enjoyed its fruits; for the general population, it was simply feudalism, in which a small band of hereditary aristocrats controlled society by force and looted its profits to sustain themselves in castles and enjoy blood sports."

    "In the West, we call that "the Dark Ages" and we invented something to end it, called a "government"; Zwick calls it paradise and has constructed a movie that asks us to endorse it. It's the first, and I hope last, pro-warlord movie!"

    He goes on to completely bash it and claim that Zwick and Cruise have completely ripped off and twisted Akira Karusara's films, generally considered to be masterpieces (specifically The Seven Samurai..) But whatever, I'm always in for 2-3 hours of not thinking about life, so I'll catch hit this week... Still holding out for LOTR though :)

    -R
     
  5. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER

    This is just wrong. The Samurai were extremely noble , ferocious, skillful warriors. There politics were just not in tune with 19C Europe but their pursuit of lofty idealized goals of nobility, purity, sacrifice, beauty, honor, skill, discipline are all very worthy values to follow even in the 21st C

    I think all the govts in the world could use a large dose of honor & nobility
     
  6. Ferruccio

    Ferruccio Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2003
    440
    olathe, KS
    Full Name:
    Dan Gordon
    When watching the movie I too was questioning its reality. Although I am sure thats not what really happened it was an entertaining movie.
     
  7. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    For whatever inaccuracies it may have (I told think it was meant to be a factual retelling of history), I thought the movie was very well done. I enjoyed it thoroughly.

    --Dan
     
  8. BigDog

    BigDog Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,316
    under the sea!
    Last Samurai is quite entertaining, I highly rec. it...

    If you're looking for a more "hardcore" Samurai movie, it'd be worth your time to check out Yojimbo or Seven Samurai
     
  9. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Going to have to check out 7 Samurai & dust off my copy of THE ART OF WAR. Good book for law school too
     
  10. Nibblesworth

    Nibblesworth Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 29, 2002
    1,756
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    BillyBoy

    While I'm not criticizing the movie (haven't seen it), and while I'd like to see it, I should correct this.

    Even in their prime, samurai weren't as honor-bound as many think. They lived by the code of bushido, which essentially tied you and all of your loyalty to your domo. Other than that loyalty and honor, there wasn't much. They often terrorized the peasants when returning home from wars - stealing their food, raping women, etc etc. Some were very noble and ideal, but the majority were brigands with swords.

    By the 19thc, this was the case for probably 99% of the samurai class, except now they didn't even know how to fight properly with their swords. It was an old and bloated class that was in need of retirement.

    If you like this kind of stuff, you should take a Japanese history class as at JC near you. It's cheap, and you can get a really good idea of what really went on with the samurai.
     
  11. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 20, 2003
    52,138
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    I grew up in an area that had quite a few Japanese - in the early 70's, my Pop and I would get up early to watch shows in Japanese on an independent TV station. The most fascinating of them was a Samurai Episodic Drama show that was simply the best thing on TV, day or night, though we couldn't understand a word. Well-filmed/acted & never cheapened.

    See if "Ideals of the Samurai" is in your local library.
     
  12. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    7,323
    NJ
    Full Name:
    RMani
    i saw the movie last night, myself and everyone i was with loved it. Great flick, a tad long, but very enjoyable.
     
  13. Artherd

    Artherd F1 Veteran

    Jun 19, 2002
    6,588
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ben Cannon
    Possible spoilers, don't read if you haven't seen!












    From what I understand from a friend who is a student of Japanese history and culture, the film is somewhat accurate actually. This man really did exist.


    I enjoyed the even-handed representation of the Samuari as a noble, but dated, people who's core values I would have liked to have seen passed on.

    They were crushed by the new wave, and instead of coming to terms and growing, they refused to change and offer what they could. The new order also refused to accomodate and appricate what they had to offer, and saw them only as savages.

    It's a tradgedy, and an honest and good one at that.
     
  14. Slim

    Slim Formula 3

    Oct 11, 2001
    1,735
    Pacifica, CA, USA
    Full Name:
    richard
    I am a fan of the old Akira Kurosawa films (we named our son Akira even) and have watched all the usual NHK samurai dramas (historical or not) and have read a bit of Japanese history in my day but I doubt the point of this film is its historical correctness - like any hollywood movie, the point is just entertainment and they need some background behind the star and it might as well be a samurai thing I guess.

    My wife (Japanese) and I have planned to see this movie Friday. I'll let you know her reaction.

    -Rich
     
  15. TigerAce

    TigerAce Formula 3

    May 29, 2003
    1,793
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Yoshi Ace
    The term Samurai is like saying Gun-man in Western movies. There were 4 classes of people back then. Japan was divided by several regions, and each regions had its own king. Bushi who served its king by working in his castles & its administered offices like collecting tax, storing foods, buying some commodities from other allied regions, etc, and they were allowed to carry a sword, the proof of Bushi. Other 3 classes were Farmers, Merchants (generally just selling commodities), and Makers (like sword maker, cloth maker, house builder, etc.) So in general, when people said Samurai, it meant Bushi class. However some people from other 3 classes could be promoted by a king to be Bushi, although very rare case. Some young farmer would run away from their home, and stray the region to become Bushi. (if you see "Seven Samurai", the character Kikuchiyo played by Mifune, depicts this kind of character in the film) Thus anyone can be dressed & act like Samurai as long as they have a sword w/ the correct hair style & clothing. However, they have no training (which starts at young age) as Bushi, so they would be obvious as wannabe from the view of real Bushi.
    The culture of Bushi changed quite bit as time passed by. Originally known for its royalty & honor-bound, they had to change as they life couldn't be made as Bushi. There's a saying "Bushi must looked full w/ toothpick in his mouth even though he hasn't eaten". Bushi were just like office workers in the time of peace, as they could be powerful Samurai only there's a war. It is ironic a long peaceful time in Japan changed how Bushi lived.

    Yoshi Ace
     
  16. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Yoshi , do the Samurai still exist in Japan or were they totally wiped out in the 19th C ? Do you live in Japan ?
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Did the Yakuza spring from the Ninja Assasins ? or elsewhere ?
     
  18. TigerAce

    TigerAce Formula 3

    May 29, 2003
    1,793
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Yoshi Ace
    William H.

    NO. You cannot carry around sword w/ that hair style!!! Hoever, we use a word Samurai as an adjective for a man who does his things without complaining, has own will & policy in his action, and never changes that in any situation. It is used to pay respect, like sort of saying "you are the man!".

    Ninja & Yakuza are totally different. Although it is possible some Ninja may changed its job after losing their king (meaning their king lost in a war) There were people like Yakuza back then. Have you seen the movie "Yakuza" w/ Robert Mitchum? Yakuza also changed as time passed by.
     
  19. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    17,712
    Savannah
    wow.... fchat IS great way to learn new things!!!!!!
     
  20. kiyoharu

    kiyoharu Formula Junior

    Feb 8, 2003
    386
    For a story on probably Japan's greatest samurai, go read the book Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa. Musashi is sort of a fictionalized biography of Musashi Miyamoto, arguably Japan's greatest samurai and writer of the strategy tome, The Book of Five Rings (Go Rin no Shou or something like that).

    There were also movie, drama and even comic book adaptations (www.viz.com sells the English-translated and award-winning comic book/manga Musashi by the artist Takehiko Inoue).

    The most famous story in the Musashi 'legend' is of course the tale where he purposely arrived late to a duel against another samurai named Kojirou Sasaki in order to 'bore' Sasaki so that he'll be either tired from waiting or won't expect Miayomoto to show up. Musashi defeated him just by whacking Sasaki with the oar of the boat in which he came to the bout with.

    The samurai class was abolished just before the turn of the 20th century, but many people in Japan still claim that they belong to samurai blood (most are liars though). The class was abolished just after the Sengoku period just like the earlier post stated.

    Ninja are not related to yakuzas. Yakuzas are like the Japanese versions of the Mafia or your local version of organized crime syndicates. They do follow certain samurai style code of ethics though. Ninjas are like spies and secret agents. They sometimes come from the rank of samurais or just the regular soldiers.

    As for the movie, I hear that it's basically a Tom Cruise vehicle, so expect the movie to make him look good. The Japanese actors and actresses are still talented though.
     
  21. zff

    zff Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    146
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Ken
    I loved the movie. One of the best I've ever seen. Sugoku omoshirokatta. Saiko.

    The character of Katsumoto is almost certainly based on a real samurai named Saigo Takamori. His name would be worth googling for, if any of you are curious.
     
  22. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2002
    3,697
    Wilmington, DE
    Full Name:
    Alex Lee
    I agree, saw this last night and definitely a good movie.
     
  23. TigerAce

    TigerAce Formula 3

    May 29, 2003
    1,793
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Yoshi Ace
    Saw the movie last weekend w/ my family. Even the youngest one (5 years old) liked it. (yes, I know it is R-rated, but the people who saw already said the violence was due to chop & dicing, harakiri, kubiuchi, etc) Movie was beautiful, although it was not shot in Japan.

    It is very good. I cannot believe most scenes are in the set! (use of CG helped) The way they shot sword fighting scene (called Tate) was so closely shot to fighters, contrasting to traditional Japanese way is shoot it from far to show the whole body movement, like dance, thus close shots gave thrusting & vigorous touch.

    I agree with some in the previous post that the movie is tad long, and maybe some conversation is hard to understand due to an accent. However it is worth $8.00 per person for 2 hours of entertainment.

    If you liked "Gladiators", "Dance With the Wolves", you'll like this movie.

    It is hard to write this because I don't want to give away any story lines for people who hasn't seen it!!!

    Yoshi Ace
     
  24. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,789
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Two thumbs up - My wife & I loved it.
     
  25. stokpro

    stokpro F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 25, 2003
    4,383
    Himalayas
    Great flick! A little long but worth it. The fighting scenes were just awesome.
     

Share This Page