LEC and VET similar to ALO and HAM?

I think pretty much that moment spelt Ron's downturn. he should have backed both drivers 50-50. With Alonso at helm, they could have won 2007,2008, and maybe 2010 as well.

 

That "link" doesn't say what you think it does though It's just a throwaway Sky Sports article based around some Lewis Hamilton quotes. I'll post the rest that furoni conveniently edited out:

..."When you are in a relationship with a certain amount of people, you do the best job you can and want to show to everyone that you are the one for the team," the 22-year-old said.
"In this situation, I was a rookie and he was the two-time World Champion coming into the team. He is the one that was looked at to bring it home, but eventually I have earned more respect from them.
"And since what's gone on in the last few weeks they've realised who the real people are in the team and who they really should back.
"I feel my bond with the team is even stronger."
And in response to rumours that Alonso offered the men on his side of the garage cash in hand if they help him beat Hamilton, the rookie says he would never stoop to asking for favouritism.
"I want to win it fair and square. Not once have I approached the team members and asked to be favoured," he said.
"It is just not something I have done at any team, asking for better equipment."
But whether McLaren do opt to back Hamilton, who leads the Championship by two points over Alonso, in the remaining three races remains to be seen.
The team has always stood by their driver equality policy, which Dennis recently reiterated.

 

And what exactly do you think does the rest of the article says now? Lewis pointing out that he is the good guy and never asked for preference... well I would have been surprised if the rest would have said that he was the one denying Alonso the respect he is asking himself for as a multiple WDC. We all can imagine what would happen if Mercedes would hire a young guy who is preferred...he would moan about the lack of respect for his achievements for the rest of days. Double standards as usual but obviously there are still people falling for the drivel he says...

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You cannot take anything away from Hamilton's success, how much people try. The facts speak for themselves.

I agree with you second paragraph. Alonso? Well, he took the opportunity to punish his team when the spygate story came about.
He surely helped the FIA "with their enquiry" and saw a good chance for revenge against his team.
That tipped the balance in the struggle between Mosley (FIA), and Dennis (McLaren), with the result we know.
No Wonder Alonso didn't wish to stick around for another year at McLaren: he had been found out.

I think these stories tell more about Alonso than anything else.

 

Pure speculation.

 

Don't need to edit anything, it was just enough to prove that even elton admited he was being favoured by the team. I recently red an article where a Mclaren staff was confirming they were trying to help Hamilton win against Alonso, that Ron was giving orders in that direction, but i can't seem to find it, i will post it if i do.

 

Home F1 A mechanic of McLaren on 2007: "Dennis wanted Hamilton champion, Alonso was right"
A mechanic of McLaren on 2007: "Dennis wanted Hamilton champion, Alonso was right"
6:01 PM
Marc Priestley, a McLaren mechanic for ten years, tells how the favoritism towards Lewis was created when they were partners in 2007.
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The trajectory of Alonso in Formula 1, brilliant with its two titles and its many exhibitions of talent, is also full of chapters to forget. One of them, perhaps the blackest, was in 2007, his first year at McLaren, that impossible to forget in which he escaped the third title followed by an absurd and ruthless battle with a Hamilton that was rookie at the time. Now, eleven years after that happened, a witness who lived in the front row gives details of how the team broke Woking.

Marc Priestley was a mechanic of the British team for ten years and tells '**********' the favoritism that Ron Dennis acted on Hamilton: "Lewis was a McLaren protégé, he knew he had the backing of Ron and the entire British press. 222222 While Fernando, who was the current champion and was widely considered the best driver, he entered a British team with a British driver, and he was totally convinced that the team and Ron backed Lewis, which, at the beginning, was certainly not the case. "

" Eventually, we all knew that the relationship was completely broken between the team and Fernando, and at that time I think Ron really wanted Lewis to win the title in the second half of that season and therefore, it was finally shown that Fernando was right, at least in his own mind, "says Priestley, revealing that all the movements that McLaren made in the second half of 2007, by order of Dennis, were orchestrated to benefit to Hamilton.

The situation between both pilots tensed to such an extent that Marc confirms that they came to hate each other, causing an irretrievable split between the two sides of the team: "I was in the middle and it's fair to say that they hated each other at the end of that season. They were not working together at all. And when that happened, the staff of the two cars that were around them naturally closed ranks around their man, so it ended up creating a big division in the middle of the garage. That separated the team. "

" It was the reason why we did not win the championship that year, because we were so busy fighting with each other that we completely turned our backs on what Ferrari was doing. We had the best car, the best two pilots and we left with nothing ", still laments Priestley, who believes" that both pilots would see that year very different now. "After that it was impossible to presage that Alonso returned to the scene, but he did, and from the hand of Dennis: It's clear, time heals everything, but do not forget ...

 

Alonso didn't "gel" with the team and his attitude didn't endeared him with the staff in general - as reported at the time.
As a twice WDC, he may have expected some respect from his boss, and some deference from a rookie Partner.
That's down to his personality more than anything else.
I don't think there was an initial plot to undermine him.
It wouldn't make sense to recruit a double WDC, and pay him a lot of money, just to humiliate him
That he received no preference, and that his team mate wasn't kept Under control got Alsonso paranoid, I think.
As Hamilton was developing nicely, Dennis let him free to challenge Alonso who felt betrayed by that Policy probably.
Of course, that caused McLaren to miss on one, and possibly 2 titles, who knows.
But as F1 fans, we often enjoy rivalry within a team, don't we?
So it was a good show to see Hamilton prove himself against a more experienced team mate.
I remember enjoying that season, and I think Hamilton drove better in 2007 than in 2008.

 

I always thought a driver's goal was become favored and be #1 driver. I thought this has been the norm since F1 existence. Can some one fill me in on why its a issue if Lewis did it?

 

I enjoyed it imensly,above all in Brazil

But i agree that there wasn't a plot from the begining, i think Elton probably surprised everyone when he was on pace with Alonso, and from then on, Dennis started to think what if!!!?

 

That's exactly how I saw it.
Alonso reacted very negatively to the situation.
Dennis and Hamilton "disrespected" him and he couldn't stand it.

 

No, the logical conclusion of Lewis behavior over the last years... "Respect" seems to be a pretty important word for him...

Ok, as obviously every second post now is on the rookie season of Lewis and the proof of his superior talent just a few thoughts:

LH44-fans point out that the rookie season is a proof for Lewis superior talent because it is the best rookie season in history of F1.
When countered that the reason might be that he was the rookie with the best car of all rookies yet the reply is that "only the best get the best car" and this again is a proof for his superiority...

So Ron saw the talent of Lewis just as Ferrari saw the one of Charles and Red Bull the one of Seb and Max.... Whereas Lewis jumped straight into a championship contender Charles took a rookie season in the Sauber and Seb and Max at Torro Rosso. Is that because Lewis talent is above the talent of the other guys or isn´t it rather due to the fact that unlike Ferrari and Red Bull McLaren has no junior team so the only way to get Lewis in F1 was in the top team itself.
Does that mean that Charles, Seb or Max would have not been able to contend for a championship if given the right car right from the beginning? I think they could have and like Lewis they might have made some rookie mistakes as well. Now they did them banging tires in the midfield rather than in the gravel of China while leading the championship...
So the fact that Lewis went straight into a top car is less because he is the only one deserving it but because it was the only one available to his mentor Ron!

 

In fact, Elton only got the place because Kimi decided to leave, because the finn was Mclaren's first choice.

 

True that McLaren didn't have a junior team, but Hamilton wasn't the first GP2 graduate to get immediatly to a top team.
Nico Rosberg did it the previous year when he got a berth at Williams.
GP2 title winners couldn't stay in the serie any more according to the rules, but many never got to F1 anyway, moved to other series, etc...
I think it was a last minute decision for Ron Dennis to pick Hamilton as second driver for the next year.
Until then, Hamilton's future was far from certain, so Ron Dennis really took a gamble.
I have no idea if Dennis couldn't find another driver, but he certainly promoted him to F1 as intended.
I don't know if others (Charles, Seb or Max) could have been title challenger in their first rookie year, so I leave these spéculations to you. I deal in facts.
So far, I haven't seen many newcomers to F1 being so promising during their first year.
Hamilton was a revelation when he arrived in F1, and his carrer has been outstanding since.
It's a pity that some don't recognise these facts, and are hellbend to dismiss his achievement.
That says more about them than about Hamilton really...

 

I can remember that jacques did the same, even better if we consider he dominated his first race until an oil leak forced him to give place to Hill.....Of course one might argue that Alonso was a lot better than Hill, but it's also a fact that jaqcues didn't knew many of the f.1 circuits, unlike Elton...

 

Mmmm, so they were not stripped of their points, and fined £100million for it then? Something smells fishy.... I think you may have gotten your facts wrong again.... McLaren used ferrari information to improve their car during the 2007 season, as PROVEN in court and by their own admission having access to the information..... try again batman

 

I think it’s hilarious that in last race of 2007 in Brazil, Alonso made sure that Ferrari wouldn’t be challenged by Elton, even at the prospect of losing the championship himself, he drove out of his skin that day to ensure the result.... and as we know, even now, Elton has no friends among his peers, sitting like the odd one out anywhere he is forced to appear alongside them.

Give the car to max, Charles, Seb, Kimi, any of the top group of drivers, they’d all match or better Elton’s records of the last few years. Give the others cars to Elton, they would finish runners up just the same... it’s the car that makes Elton, unlike previous greats for whom the car was just a tool that they manipulated and cajoled into better results than they ever deserved. Senna’ last title beating the Williams, Michael beating everyone in sight, Alonso himself dragging results out of Clifford the horse and almost managing to win the title twice in a bag of bolts unfit for the third row... they deserve far more accolade than the Mercedes robots

 

Still i rise

 

Meh

 

That’s just weird.....

 

Gee do you really think so?

 

I can’t believe you guys are arguing the hypothetical of who might or could have been better . Neither side is going to be swayed so why don’t you just agree to disagree and move along . The Lewis bashing has really gotten boring

 

I agree, it’s a ferrari biased forum, there seem to be a hardcore of people that just don’t understand that the majority of people here love ferrari and won’t accept their stupid arguments about Elton.... go figure

 

Williams was a top team??? Webber and Rosberg barely made it into top ten and they finished not more often than they did...how was this a top team?

Why did Ron took a gamble, he had absolutely nothing to loose? When you have signed a two times WDC that has proven to be able to lead the team to the title, what is the risk to put a rookie beside him? If not then, when else???
Only when Lewis "overperformed" the Ego of Ron got into his way when he wanted the world to see that his protege and his car are the best and from that point it all went south... the irony is that the guy that was replaced at McLaren won the title in the car they have stolen the datas from. How there can be seen anything positive from McLarens point of view apart from possible future movie rights for a comedy is beyond me...
Fact is with Montoya and Raikkonen out this was the best time for Lewis to enter as two places were free. Add the fact that the McLaren the year before did not win a single race just to be a title contender all of the sudden and you see that the rookie season of Lewis is not just a sign for talent but also a question of luck that all the stars lined up for Lewis as well...

So it is unfair to compare this season with the rookie season of others who had much less fortune with things not in their hand. By doing so some of your colleagues speculate how this compares to Seb, Charles and Max, not to mention Schumacher or Senna. So you see that the medal has two faces.
Fact is: it was the most successful rookie season but the most successful and the best are different things as this is a team sport and not an individual sport like tennis or golf. So other circimstances apart from the driver himself play a role and these circumstances are neglected by you and your friends

Experts have seen the same amount of talent when Schumacher, Senna and latest Charles entered F1. You might be right that those who are limited to read the results list on wikipedia (and it seems we have a few of them here lately) might not see that, but this says more about them than the drivers...

And here is again the "dismiss of the achievement", one of your favorite expressions. Add this to your approach that you only deal in facts and do not like polemics I do not get how you can like posts like this at the same moment:

Not just that it contains nothing but polemics, it also "dismisses the achievements" of a 4xWDC to the state of a loser. And not even get me started on your dismiss about Schumachers achievements....

 

Ron Dennis never initiated the transfer of data between Stepney and Coughlan, as the enquiry showed at the time.
His mistake was to pretend he knew nothing about it, instead of denouncing it.
Also, receiving data about a rival car in mid season hardly gives time to alter the design of your own.
The impact of the Spygate was grossly exagerated by the FIA, in an attempt to ruin McLaren, no less.
Max Mosley had an axe to grind against Ron Dennis, and this gave him the opportunity to discredit him completely.
Mosley partly succeeded: although the partners at McLaren rallied around Dennis to save the team, his position in the organisation became precarious.