Leiters is OUT ! End of the V12? | Page 2 | FerrariChat
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Leiters is OUT ! End of the V12?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by JTSE30, Dec 20, 2021.

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  1. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #26 JTSE30, Dec 21, 2021
    The greater point is Ferrari, very publicly, has FIRED their lead engine architect who has been publicly fighting for the V12 in various pronouncements over the past (nearly) 2 years:

    [Mar 2019]https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/geneva-auto-show/a26789176/ferrari-michael-leiters-hybrids-interview-geneva-2019/
    Ferrari said that 60 percent of its cars will be hybrids by 2022, so perhaps the V-12 models will be in the remaining 40 percent. And no, the V-12 won't get downsized or turbocharged as long as Leiters gets his way. "We will fight for the V-12, to maintain it like this today, because it is core Ferrari," he said.

    [Sept 2019]https://www.thedrive.com/news/29785/ferrari-vows-to-keep-the-v-12-engine-alive-as-long-as-it-possibly-can
    The Drive was present at the introduction of Maranello's newest V12-powered convertible supercar, the 790-horsepower 812 GTS, where Ferrari Chief Technology Officer Michael Hugo Leiters claimed the famed automaker was doing everything it can to keep the V12 alive.

    [Nov 2021]https://www.carscoops.com/2021/11/ferrari-has-more-icona-models-in-the-pipeline-to-cater-to-its-best-customers/
    The Daytona SP3 is currently the brand’s most powerful naturally-aspirated V12 to date and is built upon the LaFerrari Aperta‘s chassis. Asked whether these limited-run Icona models help Ferrari prolong the life of the V12 engine, Leiters responded: “I think so. It’s a good opportunity, it’s matching 100% our customers’ requirements and it has a limited impact on the discussion of CO2 [due to the model’s small production run].

    “I personally believe we have to fight for this engine. From a technology point of view, [the V12 is] not the most efficient. A V8 turbo could make it better in terms of performance,” said Leiters. “But from an emotional point of view, it’s the best you can have. On power, 829bhp or on the [Pininfarina] Battista 1900bhp – who cares? You get thrilled if you are a good driver with either. If you are a normal driver, you get scared if you put the pedal to the metal.”

    "The [emmission] challenges are always getting more and more complicated, but we will fight for it," said Leiters.

    - - - -

    Ferrari V12s are mostly built by hand and as a result there is an annual capacity of 2200 engines or so, certainly not enough to 'drop them into everything' even if Ferrari the company desired to do so.

    To me, the firing of Leiters is indicative that Ferrari's future direction will be quite different:
    https://corporate.ferrari.com/en/ferrari-puts-place-new-organizational-structure-next-era-success
    On 10 January 2022 Ferrari N.V. will implement a new organizational structure, consistent with its strategic goals of exclusivity, excellence and sustainability.

    Stay tuned to who they are putting in charge...likely to be a strong indication, for instance, a CTO replacing Leiters who has never designed a combustion engine...
     
  2. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    #27 ginoBBi512, Dec 21, 2021

    I cant tell which model it is ? . looks great through, I thought maybe 812 , its hard for me to guess from this photo,

    Thank you
     
  3. Nikkososa

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    #28 Nikkososa, Dec 21, 2021
    It’s a 2014 F12 [emoji3526]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  4. ddrewesusa

    ddrewesusa F1 Rookie
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    #29 ddrewesusa, Dec 21, 2021
    Ferrari needs to get on board with the rest of the world and put a WOKE business MBA in charge as CTO. I don't know think they really know what their customers really want until they do that...:D
     
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  5. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    #30 jpalmito, Dec 21, 2021
    Some rumors said he’s so Woke he decided to stop selling white Ferraris..:D:D
     
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  6. Booker

    Booker Formula 3
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    #31 Booker, Dec 21, 2021
    I don't think they will kill the V12, they will just keep it for very special cars. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but with the icona and halo model(s), the V12 is very important, no?
     
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  7. paulchua

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    #32 paulchua, Dec 21, 2021
    My thoughts exactly. If they were going to kill the V12, why request exemption with the EU?
     
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  8. ddrewesusa

    ddrewesusa F1 Rookie
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    #33 ddrewesusa, Dec 21, 2021
    Wasn't the request filed before they were all fired?
     
  9. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #34 F2003-GA, Dec 21, 2021
    :D:D:D
     
  10. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #35 JTSE30, Dec 21, 2021
    @Booker
    By 'Kill' or 'End' meaning no further serious development, just whatever is required to satisfy regulations...but, who knows, removing the CTO is a 'bold' move by Ferrari, perhaps signalling something far different for their future engine development than what has been...

    And exemption requests, even by entire countries, will likely have zero impact as far as what becomes an allowed derogation, Ferrari can't depend on that strategy..
     
  11. paulchua

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    #36 paulchua, Dec 21, 2021
    Yes, and I didn't see retracted, nor Lamborghini firing anybody.
     
  12. paulchua

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    #37 paulchua, Dec 21, 2021
    We all know what the bold move is, full electrification. Ferrari, after all, is now a publically traded company. Ferrari has been in some public profit derivative since 1969. That means it answers to shareholders first; enthusiasts are second.

    With ICE all but banned in 10 years in most major markets, Ferrari will be left holding its crankshaft naked in the cold if it stays the course.

    If you what to comment about the P&R reasons behind it, there is a section here.
     
  13. ddrewesusa

    ddrewesusa F1 Rookie
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    #38 ddrewesusa, Dec 21, 2021
    I think Ferrari retracted it by firing all the old guard who probably supported it. Retraction complete.

    Board rooms and Chief Officer meetings are not as gentlemanly (a coined term for both men and women) as people may think. They have heated discussions just like the P&R sections here do. Accusations and fortifications start and coalitions get formed and then a battle of wills takes place. CEO's must have the blessing of the board to fire old guards. What happened at Ferrari is very clear, the board wanted those three executives let go to send a message.
     
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  14. ddrewesusa

    ddrewesusa F1 Rookie
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    #39 ddrewesusa, Dec 21, 2021
    Please don't threaten P&R when your whole post here is P&R. Thank you in advance for not doing that.
     
  15. paulchua

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    #40 paulchua, Dec 21, 2021
    Certainly plausible. For argument's sake, say I agree with you 100% that they retracted it. Okay, what is Ferrari supposed to do then? Make illegal V12s? Is that what you're suggesting? If you're upset about the P&R reasons for banning of V12, that's fine - as I said, there's a forum for that here. Enjoy!
     
  16. paulchua

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    #41 paulchua, Dec 21, 2021
    So wait, ICE is not going to be banned in major markets?

    Whatever your answer, it also doesn't make the statement P&R. I did not say it *should* or *shouldn't* happen. It just *is.*

    I can say smoking indoors is illegal in some places. That doesn't mean I took a position for or against it. Again, it just *is.*
     
  17. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #42 JTSE30, Dec 21, 2021
    Correct, ICE is not being "banned" in the EU, at present, if fewer than 1000 cars are registered per year for a specific manufacturer/conglomerate, then there are essentially no emissions regulations (only safety regulations apply).

    So, therefore, if Ferrari was "all electric" for all their models, no combustion in the mix, then they could literally sell 999 V12s "pure N.A." within the EU each year (which is more than they currently sell and not have to be encumbered by most of the EU emissions regulations).

    And, not all markets are the same as the EU...
     
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  18. day355

    day355 F1 Rookie

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    #43 day355, Dec 21, 2021
    Soon an "apple" instead of the cavallino on the grille ...pffff
     
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  19. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #44 JTSE30, Dec 21, 2021
    Uh-oh, trouble on the horizon!
     
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  20. ddrewesusa

    ddrewesusa F1 Rookie
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    #45 ddrewesusa, Dec 21, 2021
    I said Ferrari fired the old guard to possibly get the critics removed from the company. That is all.
     
  21. ddrewesusa

    ddrewesusa F1 Rookie
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    #46 ddrewesusa, Dec 21, 2021
    V12's can be made many other places in the world. There, I said it.
     
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  22. montelatici

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    #47 montelatici, Dec 21, 2021
    The UK has hard ban on ICEs for 2030, the EU is proposing 2035. It does not make much sense spending R&D funds for engines that will have a very limited market in 10-15 years. Concentrating resources on high performance EVs is probably the right thing to do. Unfortunately, Ferrari's skill set in mechanical design, engineering and production will have to be transferred to electrical and electronic skills.
     
  23. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #48 JTSE30, Dec 21, 2021
    Unfortunately that skill set does not transfer. Ferrari has no skill set with EVs, the electric motors are made by a UK firm that is now owned by Mercedes, the batteries from some factory in China...

    As for UK ban in 2030, they have no plan to make that actually possible, it will not be feasible, they can hardly keep the lights on now and they are shutting down reliable energy production...but, car companies have to factor that into the plans, it is likely many car companies will become much smaller than they are now because of supply chain issues making batteries and maybe the electric motors (rare earths) as well, very peculiar times. I suspect these 'bans' will all be pushed back in the next 5 years, which plays havoc with car companies long development cycles.
     
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  24. tim bowles

    tim bowles Karting

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    #49 tim bowles, Dec 21, 2021
    A Ferrari that is all electric is abysmal. Enzo cared more about the engine than anything else on his competition cars. He was late to the game adopting disc brakes, as well as staying with front engine too long, instead of the wave of the future with mid engine. I believe he said the horse pulls the cart, he doesn't push it. But rarely was another manufacturer found with more horsepower. A Ferrari with no mechanical engine noise and the howl of the exhaust...a complete disaster orchestrated by climate change alarmists.
     
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  25. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #50 F2003-GA, Dec 21, 2021
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