Leiters is OUT ! End of the V12?

Do I not correctly recollect Ferrari's dictum about his cars being: "a Ferrari is a twelve cylinder engine in front of the driver"?

 

Yes, poached like an egg in the hot waters of electrification, I guess we'll have to get ready for "piped in" ICE sound.

 

Hot Tubes (piped in) already exist in F8, SF90 and 296GTB...at some point there will be no sound to 'pipe in' and then will be all over...

 

Now that I've had a few days to think about the new CEO is a tech guy and the ultimate boss John Elkann is more of a capital guy.
So I think neither have an affinity for V12's and are going to accelerate Ferrari's EV plans because the stock market rewards EV's over ICE
That's my take on it

 

I believe you are exactly correct, the future of Ferrari is to focus on being rewarded by the capital markets, increasing shareholder value and given the example TSLA, there's the unequivocal direction. They appear to be well ahead of Lamborghini in creating an EV-only product(by 2+ years). Seems Ferrari lost an opportunity to acquire YASA (maker of electric motors used in the SF90/296) when Mercedes purchased them earlier this year...if Ferrari does not take ownership of the electric motors (and batteries) it uses, they will become much less special (due to parts sharing with other manufacturers) but maybe that does not matter..

Makes me wonder if the F167 (rumored reveal end of 2023) will be continued...January 10's new executive reveal should provide further focus not to mention next summer's Capital Markets announcements.

 

A totally electric Ferrari will NEVER be a real Ferrari.
The greatest advertising propaganda won’t change this reality.
A Ferrari is first of all a combustion engine, which makes its nobility and its particularity.
If you remove that, those cars lose their purpose.
Sadly simple as that..

 

….and everybody knows that rewarding capital markets is much more important than making what your customers want. I see now, this is where I have been going wrong…

 

I would carve out an exception if they continue development of the V12 for regular production...I wonder how many of the "top 500 clients" will sign up for an all electric Icona.

 

Of course not the present my friend. 2035 is the date. I mean even Italy is banning ICE. China, India, hell California (Ferrari’s biggest markets, today and future) are banning by by 2035. Hell almost all of EU. It’s done. Do I like it? No! Doesn’t mean I’ll lie to myself though. Also, hope for some special car exemption passes as well.

keep in mind the ban is for new cars, I find it hard to believe they’ll ban old cars, let alone collector cars like vintage Ferrari.

it will be like record players, the’ll always be here…just rare.

heck, even in my Peoples state of California they grandfathered pre-1975 cars to be catless, and we’re the center of eco extremism.

 

Your absolutely right! Why are you scared to say it? Cocaine is made many parts in the world, doesn’t mean I can walk into a Walmart and buy it.

 

India?
at present, not on that list
http://loksabhaph.nic.in/Questions/QResult15.aspx?qref=20275&lsno=17

for comparison, India's annual new cars sales (2-3m) are less than Germany's

 

Sure you can. You just aren’t going into the right area in Walmart…

 

It's actually a ban of petrol and diesel cars or cars fueled by any other fossil source.

 

I wonder how many more events such as those reported here:
https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article234310454/Elektrobus-loeste-Grossbrand-aus-Muenchen-zieht-E-Fahrzeuge-aus-dem-Verkehr.html?fbclid=IwAR2h4f2M3MBNRl_7Bfwe5ON14VgwbA289-vZ1xdMyt-E4txyicmBg367ww8

will it take before all these '203x' bans are cancelled

or maybe it will take more of this:
https://stopthesethings.com/2021/12/20/battle-for-britain-brits-scramble-for-reliable-energy-after-repeated-wind-power-failures/

either way I doubt these bans will ever truly come to pass. Certainly manufacturers are moving as fast as they can to EV but when they are unable to find sufficient numbers of paying customers they will be begging for relaxing of these bans...

 

I wonder, is there enough raw materials to make all these electric cars? Rare earth metals are already expensive, but with demand ramping up, I would think the prices will be astronomical

 

Check neodymium and dysprosium
https://www.kitco.com/strategic-metals/

And review this:
https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-article/will-rare-earths-be-eliminated-in-electric-vehicle-motors/21972

from link above:

....rare-earths also present environmental concerns. The ores that rare-earths are extracted from are often laced with radioactive materials such as thorium. Separating the materials requires huge amounts of carcinogenic compounds like sulphate, ammonia and hydrochloric acid. Processing 1 tonne of rare-earths can produce up to 2000 tonnes of toxic waste.


more:
https://www.idtechex.com/en/research-report/materials-for-electric-vehicles-2020-2030/770

 

Last January I bought some shares of an Australian Company that mines rare earth metals from a mine in Western Australia, Lynas Rare Earths Ltd; it's the largest known deposit outside China. Also bought shares of MP Materials Corp that owns the largest known rare earth deposit in the U S in Mountain Pass Calif. MP has to send its ore to China for processing - the only such facilities operating now; they have just announced an arrangment with GM to build a processing plant in the U S to supply GM. Lots happening in this space at present.

 

...

 

Thanks to this post, I just found the problem. Ferrari has a Brand Diversification Officer??? I didn't know they had a Brand Diversification Department.

I thought Ferrari's Brand was organic, as a result of their racing heritage, their car designs, and their engines.

LdM started this path. The day he offered side shields as an option made it clear everything was for sale. He was also the first to start the silly limited editions, instead of building as much as they could in a given year. Yes, LdM is the one who whored out Ferrari as a "Brand." Apparently so much that they even have an office of Brand Diversification today.

It's over, and has been over for some time.

 

I disagree. The paying customers all manufacturers are interested in are not the Boomers or Gen X that inhabit this forum. By 2035, even early Millennials (Gen Y) will be over 50 years of age. Manufacturers are focused on the attitudes and behaviours of late Millennials and early Gen Z, who will be nudging 40 years of age by 2035. They have zero choice.

The current younger cohorts do love ICE supercars (and Lambo in particular have nailed this area) but in daily life, mobility is the critical factor for younger cohorts not the complexity and cost of car ownership. New business models will be more like mobile phone contracts. The traditional players for example VW Group are already chasing Tesla hard. Porsche and Audi today have strong EV premium products already and let's not forget who owns Lambo and Bugatti too. The mindset in auto boardrooms around the world is not ICE but EV. And future business models and mobility plans.

OK, so what of Ferrari?

Ferrari's very powerful Executive Chair is also Chair of Stellantis NV (and happens to be a 14.4% owner of the giant PSA/FCA auto group and 24.05% owner of Ferrari). The CEO of Stellantis NV also happens to be easily one of the smartest and successful CEOs in the auto business. Also take a look at some of Ferrari's Non Executive Directors. From Apple, Chanel and Kering. Given the many moving parts (from the climate change global agenda and future urban mobility to inevitable changes in demography) and Ferrari's board and shareholder composition, I find it impossible to believe Ferrari's mid to long term business strategy (every part of it) hasn't already been sorted.

Ah, but won't the Ferrari brand be destroyed if the mighty NA V12 and ICE dies?

I doubt it. In my opinion, Ferrari has already created powerful and valuable Classiche and Corsa Clienti business strands. It is also still heavily involved in Formula 1 and the 2022 season may see the Scuderia back where it belongs. Ferrari could therefore follow a dual approach to drive the future while protecting its heritage. Focus their future models on ultra luxury high margin "sports'' EV while retaining its massive brand heritage through a mixture of Formula 1, Corse Clienti (the ultimate club experience using private tracks with impeccable bragging rights and fees to match) plus Classiche where the next generations of ultra wealthy collectors can keep and privately run their Ferrari greats in pristine condition. We've already seen prices of the F50 and F40 sky rocket in the last 2 years. The post 2000 era supercar series Limited Edition models like the F12tdf and 599 GTO are also gaining fresh momentum. We've seen the serious investments made by Ferrari in Corsa Clienti and the increasing importance of Classiche. I think these are signals.

In summary, my view is the paying customers will be EV customers, some of whom will be very top end collectors of ICE greats too. Ferrari must have also already chosen its path; I wouldn't therefore be surprised if it comprises a two pronged attack; one being heavily future EV facing, dominating a rapidly emerging and very lucrative ''luxury performance'' EV segment - I guess using Stellantis for much of the heavy tech lifting no one will see or hear. The other being a focus on protecting the huge marketing value of Ferrari's immense brand heritage via Formula 1 and by creating a very exclusive and lucrative business maintaining and running the ICE greats of Ferrari's past.

Next few years will be interesting for sure.

 

You have expressed a lot of things correctly, and I allow myself to give you my points of disagreement.
Indeed, Ferrari has a new strategic line and those who disagreed ...
I always thought that they were going to become a service company by manufacturing parts for existing models and developing the private activities of corsa clienti.
Where we disagree is that it does not represent a big deal in the turnover of the company.
And that the potential of corsa clienti is not as scalable as you might think. You have the vast majority of them present at the world finals every year ... and it is not a few hundred people who will support Ferrari, however rich it may be.
So comes the production of electric cars, since that's where they go ...
Sell Ferraris without engines at the Ferrari price, that is to say by denying the entirety of your history which has made the legend and the strength of the company, well ... good luck to them!
After the effect of the novelty, I strongly doubt that they will be able to sell 10,000 a year!
Why ? because even those who only buy a badge need to acquire a rewarding and valued object, an image car. It is at this moment that it risks becoming more complicated, because the total disconnection of this object with the history which has made its strength, rightly risks reviving an image of disconnected and devalued.
Let’s be clear, an electric Ferrari is not a Ferrari. And by dint of seeing it meant, I doubt that there will be many people left to make this production profitable. As if Patek were to make liquid crystal watches ... I doubt the level of sales would be where they are today.
In summary, what made your history, the myth, and your strength, that is to say the motors and the sound of the ICE motors may become your biggest handicap in the conquest of the electric.
And it is not a marketing department that will make you forget that.
They are already pretty ridiculous with their "fun to drive" today ...
And for us, "enthusiasts", friends?
Well yes, unfortunately we only have to look back ...
The years to come are going to be terribly boring ...
And when LCDM said "I prefer Ferrari to disappear rather than build electric cars" he was right, and history will prove him right.

 

So many exceptions that will erode the relevance of statements being replied to...

For example, the sizable population of persons who have no ability to charge while they sleep (no ability to plug in for a large variety of reasons).

Travelling becomes nearly impossible, no hotel is going to have a charger for all its guests, etc.; the 'build-out' alone would cost millions per any sizable hotel.

No existing electric grid can support the demands created by tens of millions of pure EVs, and will remain elusive for decades, especially where the existing electric grids are over-committed (think UK for example..I'm sure you are aware of when the wind does not occur)

It will take decades to ramp up production to 'just' 30 million EVs per year (current approx demand for new cars/light trucks in USA+EU).

And more to consider, but those are the highlights for the general population of non-exotic vehicles.

(and due to all the above and more, all automotive manufacturers will be pleading to end the ICE bans or will necessarily shrink to meet their ability to produce and their ability to find customers willing to purchase)

 

Tons of emotionless electric cars will come to market... however those manufacturers who will 'get it right' and who will be able to offer an EV that excites the right buyers..will still be able to attract substantial money of wealthy people as they want something that stands out! The question is who will get it right to attract big wallets of passionate motorists. Italy, great fabrics, design, the heritage/story...its already 4-0. Time will tell.

 

Only until the sales number reflect how the customer feels. If the numbers are not as projected, the sound of corporate changes will be heard very loudly. Not quite the sound of a V12, but equally rewarding.

 

Piped in is different than artificial noise being transmitted through the sound system. I know you know this but I could see how someone reading your comment may think artificial noise is being piped in through the cabin/sound system and that is not the case.