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Lifespan of front end bushings?

Discussion in '308/328' started by thecarreaper, Oct 3, 2009.

  1. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #1 thecarreaper, Oct 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    my records show my Qv had all the bushings done in 1999. its had only afew thousand miles put on it since they were done. i had an end link bushing go bad a few weeks ago. i said the hell with it and we did :

    all the upper and lower control arm bushings.

    upper ball joints.

    lower ball joints.

    sway bar bushings.

    tie rod ends.

    inspected steering rack and steering rack bushings ( all ok ).

    local shop did a 4 wheel alignment to QV specs.



    car drives superb. the bushings that were removed did not look " that bad ", and probably had years left in them. i wanted the ball joints done, and there was no reason to not do all the bushings " while we were there". my buddy did the job in about 24 hours ( 3 8 hour days). he also noted that all the bushing had small spot welds on them, which may explain why some guys were having to use a press to get them out in older threads i found. he showed me you can just grind the spot welds, and pop the bushings out with a dead blow hammer.


    so how long do these non lubricated bushings last in these cars?

    funny thing is, the car drove " nice " before. the alignment shop said the rear suspension was actually out of adjustment, and it was fixed with the 4 wheel alignment they performed. all i can add is that the car really drives well now. feels very crisp and sharp, but not nervous.
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  3. EnfieldJoe

    EnfieldJoe Karting

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    It is looking good, Michael.
     
  4. DenisB

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    THAT is one Beautiful 308
     
  5. GTVeloce

    GTVeloce Karting

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    #4 GTVeloce, Oct 3, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
    I am liking your 308 QV. You said it's a Euro model?
    I would love to see / drive the car. Too bad you're so far away; or maybe it's me that's so far away...
    Love the Berlinetta and the "no roof spoiler" and the smaller side mirrors. All in all, just about a perfect QV. Sweet.
     
  6. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    25-30 years old is far overdue. I think they should be changed every 10-15 years. Ball joints last longer depending on how much the car is driven. You made sure to spot weld the new bushings when they were installed right? If not, the mounts become eccentric after a little while a create much larger issues, like replacing a-arms and more.

    Anyway, I did this same procedure early in the summer only I rebuilt the steering rack as well. What a great service. Really sharpens things up
     
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  8. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    yes, they were all donr in 1999, so we are at the 10 year mark. like i said, they were not that bad, but it was a " while we are here" thing. they did in fact spot weld the new ones in. i made sure of that! i have had 5 308s, and i was really surprised at how the feel of the car can be changed. there is a distinct difference in the way the car feels with 14 inch, 16 inch, or metric wheels. if you have good shocks and bushings, these cars really feel outstanding on the highway. my 911 will be delivered in a few days, this should be a fun comparison week. the 911 will be my first targa, as the others i have had were coupes.


    i think a gt4 with a well set up suspension and some 17 inch wheels would be a hoot!
     
  9. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    I had an '86 targa for a while. Great cars and engines. I had to replace a bunch of broken head studs and valva guides though.....Known issue with those cars but no biggie. gratz and enjoy!
     
  10. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    hmmmm i thought only the 83 and older 3.0 motors had that problem? i know some 3.2s have troublesome valve guides, but i thought the stud issues was with the early cars and not the 3.2s? i have owned an 84, and an 89 911 that ran and drove wonderfully. both had 150k+ miles on them? i think? . and a 76 911 project car i sold as a track car.

    anyway the targa is a done deal, if it has any issues, i will just have to deal with them!
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Nothing to really worry about. I had 3 broken head studs in my engine and never knew it. My heads came off to replace the guides and the studs just happened to be found while in there lol. The tensile strength of the stock studs did not get really good until the 993 engines. My 915 transmission was not the greatest shifting thing in the world either, but that was one of the things I loved about the car. It had 130k miles on it when I sold it. I put about 10k+ trouble free miles on it. Loved that thing
     
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  13. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #10 thecarreaper, Oct 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    thanks, its always good to read info like that from actual owners.

    i am nervous as hell about buying the targa, but all the similar priced 911 coupes were way high in miles and i wanted something different this time around.

    it will be nice to have an 85 targa with 59k original miles on it to use as a beater !

    its a real privilege to mix and match 80s 308s and 911s! :)
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  14. CliffBeer

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    It's really the '74-77 cars that had a head stud problems - why? Well, those years had thermal reactors and 5 blade cooling fans which really made cooling difficult. It's the heat cycling that slowly pulls the head studs out, or, breaks them. The 3.0 and 3.2 engines aren't too hard on head studs. As you may know, the 3.0/3.2 cars have the block developed for the turbo (unlike the earlier cars) and it's pretty bullet proof.

    For some years the prevailing thinking was to replace broken/pulled studs with "dilavar" studs - these studs theoretically had the same rate of heat expansion as the pots - but they seem to fail just as much as the others. As indicated above, don't fret too much about 1 or 2 broken/pulled studs. You'll find out if that's the case during a valve job. It's not worth taking the heads off just to find out if there are broken studs, assuming everything is running fine.

    You'll enjoy your new 911!
     
  15. ZiFF

    ZiFF Formula Junior

    Mar 30, 2009
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    There are a couple of different head stud problems.

    The first is when the head studs pull out of the engine case. That is almost exclusively a 75-77 issue. They ran hot, and the magnesium case wasn't very strong. Those head studs can also break, but seemed to pull more than break.

    On the 78-80 SC 3.0 engine, the head studs almost never pull out of the engine case. The case is aluminum, and much stronger than the earlier ones. SC's do break head studs fairly frequently, though. Part of it is just age, and the corrosion that comes with it. These are 30+ year old cars now. The ones that break are almost always the lower ones, which are Dilivar. The top ones are steel.

    The Carrera also uses steel top head studs, and Dilivar bottom ones, but on the Carrera the Dilivar studs have a coating on them to protect them from corrosion. They can still break on the Carrera, but it isn't all that common at all.

    thecarreaper, I've owned quite a few 911s, I was always mainly a coupe guy, with a cab every now and then. Until I got a Targa! I love the Targa now. I sold my last one a year ago, but missed it ever since, and just picked up a G50 Targa last week. Love it! For my use, it's perfect, I never put the top on and rarely roll the windows up, the Targa is more solid and drives better than the cab, but still is a very nice open air experience.
     
  16. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #13 thecarreaper, Oct 5, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
    thanks ZIFF, i had a 308GTS as my first ferrari. i was not too happy with the heavy feel the car had, the wide door sills, and the noise from the top. same thing with the Jalpas. the 911 coupes, the GTB and GT4 308s seemed to drive and feel better as a sports car. a local friend had let me drive his euro 1976 308 gtb prior to my first ferrari purchase, and i could tell the difference instantly. that was 4 years and 5 Ferraris ago for me!

    i had my 308 GTS for over a year, and dealt with it, but i have tried to only buy hard top cars. this stems from me not liking the t top F bodies ( z28 / Trans am) i had when i was younger. the coupes all seem better suited as sporty cars.

    with all that being said. i wanted something different. so targa it is. the Demoise truck will be here on Wednesday with the 911.

    my QV will stay for sale online until spring. but this is our best time of the year to drive these cars. the only thing left on my QV to do, is to switch to a rotary a/c compressor. not that i care too much about a/c, but it seems to help preserve the value of the car. i aint giving the car away, despite all of the "offers" i keep getting. i think i will grab a 308 GT4 when i find the right one, as a carb ferrari beater. :)



    ps : i am now wondering how many 308s out there could really use new bushings and front end parts now. i am telling you guys, the new parts and alignment really woke up the feel and responsiveness within the car. its amazing!
     

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