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430 Lifting with F1 and the smoothest least clutch wear shift from 1-2nd

Discussion in '360/430' started by carguy007, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    386
    I know the manual says not to lift on shifts. I actually find I get slightly smoother shifts however. Does anyone else lift? I don't completely come off the gas, but do to the point where I am barely touching the gas. I also feel it wears clutch less.

    If I am above 4k rpm I like to shift completely off the gas(I reve the car up let off and shift with no gas). It is super smooth and feels like it does not wear the clutch. Think about it as you are driving a manual and you shift gears with no gas just letting the clutch out. This is actually the way you have to drive the Carrera GT ironically.

    From a stand stil I think we all have the same technique where we rev it up and then slightly let of the gas tell the clutch engages.

    Ultimately I want to do what is best for the car and clutch. No one likes a 6-8k clutch job
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
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  3. wheelman76

    wheelman76 Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2004
    1,084
    Midwest
    I do the same, I feel if you’re not getting fully on the gas the car makes the clutches slip more during shifting if that makes sense. I may be just imagining things and have no idea what I’m talking about too....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. Flyingbrick242

    Flyingbrick242 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 26, 2017
    321
    So. Cal
    I do not lift when shifting from 2nd to 6th as I believe the clutch system is disengaging and reengaging the clutch disc so quickly there is almost NO slip.
    I do agree it feels smoother when lifting which may be attributing to a softer clutch engagement equating to possible more slip of the clutch.
    However I can see your point on take offs and reverse...again with your concept treating it like a three pedal vehicle.
    Lets see what others have to say.
     
  5. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    386
    I think that the in grear shifts account for a fraction of the wear and the reputation the F1 single clutch system has for eating clutches. It may be pointless for me to lift a little, but it certainly feels better. I know for a. fact it's much less shock to the drive train. Additonally if I am redlining and getting on the gas hard, I actually will let off the gas quite a bit too. The faster the flywheel is spinning the more clutch disc it is going to use/take to grab it is my rationale. In fairness it's no where near as fast and quick/violent of a shift. So some of the hysteria is lost unfortunately but it feels much smoother and easier on the car, espcially the trans and engine mounts:(
     
  6. cole328

    cole328 Formula Junior

    May 9, 2014
    781
    I have only owned my 430 spider for ~ a year (3 K miles), but I never lift (at least not intentionally) when upshifting I think it all happens so fast, that it would not matter anyway I thnk what happens many times, is that especially if I am north of 7 rpms when shifting (which is most of the time :)), the F1 is so brutal, that I mentally "flinch" and likely slightly lift the throttle not entirely sure tho, as I also simultaneously giggling as the car cracks off the shift!! I phreaking love this car

    Also, when I first got the car, I asked the forum the same question, and I believe I was pointed to the owners manual where it clearly tells you not to lift when shifting
     
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  8. Michael Parks

    Michael Parks Rookie

    Aug 23, 2018
    12
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Michael Parks
    I’m honestly curious what most people who are getting 10-15k miles out of a clutch are doing. I’ve got 34,500 miles on my 2006 F430 and Ferrari told me one week ago I had 52% of my clutch remaining (not used). I’m not the original owner but I have a detailed service history and there’s no mention of the clutch having ever been replaced. Because I’m not the original owner, I can’t comment on how the previous owners drove it; however, I can say I’m careful not to slip the clutch any more than is absolutely necessary. Generally speaking, I don’t let off of the gas when changing gears. I do avoid repeatedly engaging the clutch In a short amount of time ( e.g. pulling forward/backward to back into a parking spot, stop and go traffic that inches forward causes me untold grief, etc.). I do like to drive it fast but not hard.
     
  9. Husker

    Husker F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 31, 2003
    8,838
    western hemisphere
    I let a friend of mine drive my 360 recently and he was lifting completely and I kept trying to tell him that wasn't necessary, just leave the throttle alone. A miserable experience, and I made a trip to the chiropractor thereafter.
     
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  10. SpencerMarks

    SpencerMarks Karting

    Jan 15, 2017
    117
    Woodstock, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Spencer
    Out of curiosity how is your approach to stops and starts? Meaning once the light turns green, what rpm are driving off at initially so the clutch bites, but doesn’t slip. I always aim for around 1800 rpm initially and that gets me going with minimal slip, I think, then apply slightly more throttle and shift from 1st-2nd around 3500-4K rpm. Seems 1-2 gear shifts, inching forward, and unnecessary reverse is where the clutch wear gets people
     
    albkid likes this.
  11. aslowdodge

    aslowdodge Karting

    Jun 5, 2004
    184
    Marietta, Georgia
    I wonder if everyone is just overthinking this. I leave mine in race mode and take off at lights at the same, sometimes slower pace than the other cars. I don’t let off and kind of enjoy the slaps, makes it feel special. I can’t see why the owners manual would tell you not to lift unless it wasn’t ok. If I want buttery shifts I just drive the Lexus.
     
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  13. carguy007

    carguy007 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2013
    386
    Owner manual "advises" so interpret as you will. I think lifting could potentially confuse the car's TCU. I also believe all the wear baically occurs. leaving first or reverse. Smooth shifts mean it is easier on the drive train too. An example is when I had my gated 360 I could shift much smoother than the F1 would with my F1 360. I think it is safe to assume a majority of people do not lift.
     
    brogenville likes this.
  14. Fenz

    Fenz Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2018
    135
    Team Europe
    Full Name:
    JH
    I don't lift off. It's not a shopping station wagon, it's my weekend getaway fun, it's used as it's intended.
    When the clutch needs to be changed, I change it.;)

    (My clutch wear is about ~6% per 10000km/6213 miles, race mode, hard non-lift shifts, city+highway driving).
     
  15. nickorette

    nickorette Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2017
    200
    Toronto
    Don't lift off, like the kicks, it feels more engaging. If manual says not to lift I figure they know best

    I do wait for clutch to engage before giving it the beans when in 1st gear, don't want the clutch slipping at high rpm, that's how they burn out
     
  16. Michael Parks

    Michael Parks Rookie

    Aug 23, 2018
    12
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Michael Parks
    Our approaches sound very similar. I haven't really checked the rpms when starting off but around 1800 sound about right. I give it a little more gas than I do my daily driver but, really, just enough to get a good clean start. For me, the worst part is backing out of the garage and the subsequent back-and-forth I must make to face the road. Also, my driveway is on an incline so I always ensure I can move onto the road in front of my house without stopping to let someone pass then restarting. It's not bad really and I pretty much have it down to a science now. I think you're exactly right about 1-2 shifts, inching forward and unnecessary reversing.
     
    the_dan likes this.
  17. 993man

    993man Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 20, 2009
    869
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Graham
    I don't lift either.
    I try not to worry about the clutch wear because I knew what i was getting into buying this car.
    When it needs replacing I'll replace it.
    But I will be trying that LC button before though :)
     
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  18. the_dan

    the_dan Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 6, 2016
    37
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    Dan M
    I find a very slight lift helps with smoothness when driving around town shifting on a light throttle at low RPM. No idea whether it helps or hurts the clutch but it certainly feels smoother. I have had passengers who are car guys comment how smooth the car feels because they had been led to believe the F1 was a clunky slow gearbox.

    The car doesn’t rev match on downshifts while not in race mode I believe so I try to give it some help with a little blip when changing down in those circumstances.

    When driving hard in sport mode I keep my foot flat down when changing up at the redline. I like the feeling of the car banging in the next gear, it’s what the F1 is about IMO. That’s probably not the best in terms of longevity for clutch or engine mounts but those things don’t keep me awake at night.

    My own instinct (having grown up driving manual personal and work vehicles) is that shifting on the move (between 2-3-4-5-6) contributes little to wear in any case.

    It’s the heavy traffic (especially here in HK), the standing starts and reversing (on any type
    of incline) that kills clutches in my view. The only time I ever got a clutch smell in my car was reversing a slight uphill into my car wash place.

    Lots of owners here in HK complain about their transmission giving overheat warnings - which has never happened to me even in heavy traffic and 100 degrees plus weather.

    Another thing I like to do is hold it on the footbrake with my left foot and feed in the throttle when taking off uphill, slowly letting off the brake simultaneously with the clutch taking up. If you let it roll back on hills and expect the transmission to pick up the strain you can expect your clutch to have a short and beautiful life.
     
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