Living with a Daytona ?

There were three series of comp Daytonas, in groups of five each. First ones used production engines, albeit with larger diameter 36mm Euro exhaust headers. Last ones used "P6" cams with about 1/2mm greater lift and more duration, along with higher compression pistons, 11:1 I believe. Reportedly 450 HP in this configuration. No full exhaust, side exit pipes behind the doors instead. Also used cold air ram induction box rather than standard air cleaner. Other differences from street version included the usual weight removal procedures, wider wheels, different brake pads, etc.

 

BillB

We need some pictures of your car. You have the spider that is the center piece of this thread

Rijk

 

Dr. Tax: i have been considering an older open top Ferrari for some time. I have no interest in paying current market for a "real" Daytona spider, and some of the cut cars may be their equal. Get Bill B. to weigh in on this, but its my impression that even the "factory" spiders were essentially "cut" by Scaglietti. I have been in a few cut cars; one, considered a "good" one, with proper "rear clip", correct side windows, etc. was rattly as hell. I suspect even the factory ones had their share of chassis flex, given the vintage of these cars. Here's my take on the various cars you are discussing:

The 330GTC gets high marks from everybody, this may have started with Batchelor's statement that it was the best overall Ferrari road car. The coupes leave me a little cold; the GTS version is a far more appealing looking car.

The 365 GTC is a pretty rare bird and even rarer as an open car. I'm not sure how it would compare with a stock Daytona, performancewise, but at least as an open car, it would, to me, be far more desirable than a Daytona coupe. Its alot more precious, pricewise, too.

Compared to your Maranello, i'd bet you find any of these older cars to be more involving to drive; i don't know if i'd be willing to just hop into one and do a cross country jaunt, though.

I think rust was also a pretty serious problem with these older cars. There is a cut Daytona near Phila. with the plexi nose, in yellow. Pretty good conversion, i'm told, although i think the only "real" plexi spider was a prototype, so its going to be pretty obvious that you are either driving around in a museum piece or a conversion. Guy wants at least a buck-fifty for the car, though, which is a little high, and i understand that it needs some attention, rust bubbles, and therefore paint.

 

LIke I said, this wanting what I don't have is a major sickiness. Hi, my name is DrTax...

After all, I just paid my car insurance bill and the nice lady asked if I'm interested in a fleet discount. Sick, sick, sick.

Do you know anybody who wants to buy a car?

Dr "Sicko" Tax

 

I've thought about a Daytona off and on for years. A couple of weeks ago, I was looking at a Daytona in California with an experienced mechanic (who was also representing the Daytona in question). He made the case that all Daytonas have had (and will have in the future) rust problems, due to some design flaws.

He was able to show me on the car he was representing where and why this happens, and we discussed preventative measures. Bottom line, though, is that if you drive the cars, they will rust.

This won't keep me from buying one, it's just something you have to budget for.

 

Care to share this with us, Don?

Thx, DrTax

 

Sure. For starters, he showed me how the door sills are tilted towards the car. Thus, rain goes in the door (from the window), drains down and out of the door (if the drain holes in the door are not plugged), hits the sill and stays there, and probably seeps down into the rocker panel causing rust there.

Rain also enters the rear wheel well area through the little grates at the rear part of the rear quarter windows. In theory, there is some caulking which should protect the wheel well area, but in practice he said by now that caulking is usually cracked and worn out and water seeps in there.

I forget what happens in the front wheel well area, but you get the idea.

The answers were that you open the car up and ensure that all the drain holes are clear, replace the caulking, that sort of thing. In a full restoration, he said you can tilt the door sill outwards, so that water drains as it should.

 

Thanks, very helpful. But I am trying to picture the door sills moving. Are they mounted on a pin so they can swing open?

Thx

 

The sills won't pivot. The body man is going to reshape the metal. Then paint.

Sounds pricey don't it?

 

Okay, I get it now. Thx

 

This is always an interesting discussion. Have owned a number of Ferraris, vintage and contemporary. My preference is for open air driving( live in the SF Bay Area). For pure driving involvement, the Daytona is wonderful for all the reasons posted. Repairs are easily done by a good shop(Dayal @ Prancing Horse of California, excellent from maint. to full restore).
I believe these cars should be driven, so the cut coupe. An original spyder in excellent shape will set you back 300-400k. A cut car, 150k and up. Makes a dinner out less nerve racking.
Attached is a photo of a Euro. cut spyder being offered by Brandon Lawrence@ Sportscars Italiano, Burlingame Ca.( 650-558-8255).
I have another USA version in the garage that gets driven regularly.
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That is a beautiful Daytona..I'm jealous!

 

I like the silver, is the interior black?

 

And John, how do you compare the driving experience between the open Daytona and a 275/330gts? (Looks like the former, judging by the nose of the silver convertible parked next to the daytona in your photo). And, the driveway in your photo looks suspiciously like the registration building at the San Ysidro Ranch in Santa Barbara.

 

How does a factory Daytona Spyder drive compared to a cut car? I know the cuts cars vary in terms of conversion quality (i.e, chassis rigidity, etc.) Has anyone here owned or driven both?

 

As I been asked to respond, here are a few thoughts.
Some converted coupes, as well as original spyders, are "rattly". It comes down to owner maintenance. When I first purchased my car, which had only 880 miles since total restoration in Italy, I spent six months fixing things. Carried a notepad in the glove box and made notes of everything I didn't like or that needed improvement. Fortunately I'm a tinkerer, so I worked on a prioritized basis and eventually got the job completed. I have no rattles, shakes, or inoperative equipment, save the darn clock which is a hopeless case unless converted to 20th century electrics.

As for driving the original vs the conversion, it comes down to the quality of the conversion process. Some exhibit quite a bit of cowl shake. I'd compare it to mid to late sixties Corvette convertibles with the hardtop removed. Nothing scary enough to be afraid of driving it, but certainly not up to today's standards. That goes for the originals as well. They're pretty solid for a car that was intended as a coupe only, but modified (by the factory-authorized guys) with additional bracing.

Obviously I've a biased opinion, but in a nutshell a good conversion car is a cost-effective alternative to 2-1/2 times the price for an original. This only applies if you're a driver, and want the fun that a spyder offers. They are never going to be worth anywhere near the price of the originals, and that's as it should be. If you're a collector, get an original and be proud of it. If you're contemplating a "cut" car, do a thorough inspection and aggressive test drive. It will be obvious whether the car in question is a good choice or not.

Rust is an issue with all older steel-bodied Ferraris, and some newer ones too. The coupe quarter panel rust over the wheel arch is probably present on all but those which have already been repaired. It stems from the water entry at the vent described earlier, and results from the untreated sheet metal inside the panel. My last coupe suffered this, and upon disassembly we found foam rubber glued to the unpainted panel, presumably used as a sound deadener. This absorbed moisture and held it tenaciously against the bare metal! Similar problem with door skins, especially USA cars with the door crash beam. Water collects in there and if the drains aren't clear (as they are usually plugged from overzealous rust proofing), the water eats away the skin. I have aluminum doors so no more problem. Also my quarter panels are treated on the inside. After nearly 11 years of ownership, not a trace of corrosion anywhere. I should note that I thoroughly dry every nook and cranny, drain hole and orifice, with compressed air whenever I wash this car.

Hope this long-winded response is helpful. Forza Daytona!

 

Photos as requested. If they worked!
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Wow! Bill you the man. Pls keep em coming. We want more and more and more.

DrTax

 

Dr Tax,
Thanks. How about a couple views rarely seen?
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Amazing. Only problem I can see is that how can you stand to drive the car when it is this clean? Of course, how can you stand not to?

BTW, what are your thoughts on the relative merits between say a Daytona and a 365 GTC?

Thx, DrTax

 

Dr Tax,
Well, I drive the car anyway. I am fortunate to have a hoist in my garage, so I put her up there and do a light cleaning once or twice a year. The first time it took a couple of weeks, but since then, it's now less than an hour to keep up the condition. The photos posted are recent and show the condition after nearly 11 years of use, so they were not taken right after a restoration or anything like that.

It's difficult to give advice concerning choosing one model over another. Each has its own merits. The best thing to do is test drive an example of each and make notes of likes and dislikes. In general, the Daytona is a more high-strung performance car. It feels heavier, but as speed and agressiveness increase, it becomes better and better. When I first got into Ferraris, I was advised by a salesman that the "Daytona is man's car, its not an easy car to drive and demands constant attention". Of course that was just more encouragement for me so I got my first one. I've had several other models in the past 30 years or so, but I always sell them and get another Daytona. Obviously for me it is the right choice, but others don't like them so much. That's as it should be. I can think of no model that everyone agrees is perfect.

 

Didn't want to step into the Daytona v GTC debate, eh? Can't blame you.

A friend who has owned several Daytonas did give me one bit of advice about these cars. He said it is safe to assume that every Daytona has been driven hard, very hard. Of course, this is not the problem. The real problem is whether the PO put up the car wet. As an example, he had a chance to buy the Cannonball Daytona, and he said that it was a POS.

His point was that it was very important to do a very through PPI on any Daytona AND to know something about the previous owner. He said it is far wiser to pay more for a well-maintained Daytona than for just about any other type of vintage Ferrari. Well, except maybe for a Boxer, but I digress.

Thanks for sharing your car with us. If you have any other tips about problematic areas on a Daytona, please share them with us. For example, I have been told that adjusting the carb is a royal PIA, but once done, it stays done. Has this been your experience? And what about the wire wheels? As an old Brit bike guy, I loved to hate the damn things.

Thanks for your time, Dale