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Looking to buy a 330 GTC...

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Island Time, May 10, 2007.

  1. Island Time

    Island Time F1 Veteran
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    Dec 18, 2004
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    David
    If you have one that you'd be willing to sell, or know of any leads, please let me know...

    Thanks
    Dave Cate

    And on a related note...I'd be interested in knowing what the consenses is as to what kind of money is now required to buy "well sorted" 330? ie, can a good one be bought for less than 200k? That seems to be, to me anyway, the number. Fantesy's got a couple...they've been on the mkt now for a while at that price. I know what's being asked and what they're doing at auctions, but would you say those are "real-world" benchmarks from which you should measure? (I mean, when I go to sell, I won't be selling at auction, and I'm no dealer).
     
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  3. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
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    morris
    IMHO, when your are speaking about selling at the time your are speaking about buying you are already thinking too low to pick up a realy great car. If you think "investment" compare this car with art. It typically takes years to see your moneuy back. If you are thinking of driving, hobby and lifestyle, you will have to raise the amount you are willing to pay to get a great car. If you don't you will spend more than you think possible in derferred maintenance. Remember, buy the best car you can afford, not the most reasonable.
     
  4. Island Time

    Island Time F1 Veteran
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    I can see how one might misinterpret my thought process. However, in my case, thinking about buying and selling, are not mutually exclusive to getting a great car. It is how one arrives at a sound... "how much am I going to lose on this transaction" accessment. Personally, I think that's a fair question, no matter how emotional the purchase...and this thinking is ESPECIALLY relevant when one is looking for the best example one can find, of any given toy.

    Unlike you, I do not have an unlimited supply of money to lose. When buying a toy (or art, if you so prefer), I apply the same financial analysis that I apply to any investment. But, unlike an investment, I'm looking at how much it will cost me rather than how much it'll make me.

    In my case, I have to get to know a mkt before I buy anything, and, besides trying to find a car, is one of the reasons for my post.

    Again, unless money is in fact, truely, now object whatsoever, I see nothing inconsistent w/ wanting to know what's "happening with the money", and wanting the best car you can find....but that's just me.

    Sometimes I wonder if but some "Ferrari guys" want people to believe that if money is an object..."well, then buddy..hehe...you just can't afford one (unlike myself, of course, but, then again, we're just soooo unalike). Go find youself another make, I mean "marque", kiddo"?
     
  5. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,439
    The 330 is a nice car, but keep in mind it will cost the same to do repairs on that car as a 275gtb or 250gto. A 50K hit on one of those you can handle because the cars are worth more, but on a 330 you could be upside down very quickly if that matters.THESE CARS ARE EXPENSIVE. If you buy a car for 200K it could very easily need 100K in mechanicals to get it right so you can enjoy it. When dealers say "restored", that could mean anything. A paint job is not a restoration. All I can say is take your time and learn the names of the mechanics you can trust. Be careful and do tons of research. You don't want to get the wrong car.I noticed you have owned Porsches in the past. Vintage Ferraris are another animal and prices for parts are unbelievable, if you can even find them. I noticed a new radiator for for a 330gtc for $6,700. The last super nice 330gtc I saw for sale was over a year ago at autosportdesigns for I believe 240K restored by Norbert Hofer and Junior in Southern California. That was alot of money for a 330gtc, but Norbert has a good rep for restorations. So you know it was a great car. Today that would be a bargan. TAKE YOUR TIME.
     
  6. Jay_GTB

    Jay_GTB Karting
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    Oct 5, 2005
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    Dave,

    First, I hope you find your car soon.

    Unlike some of the other subsections of this forum, there is a good bit of know how and experience in this section. So, here’s the thing, if you really want to be ahead, buy the most expensive (translate that as the best quality) 330GTC on the market. This is the smartest way to buy a semi-blue chip Ferrari. However, if your budget is the driver, having the choice between a mediocre 330GTC and a top flight 330GT 2+2, go for the latter.

    Over the course of the past 10 years, personally, I have seen a number of outstanding 330's, 275's, Lussos, etc. advertised for 30-40 percent over the going rate. Almost consistently, these “overpriced” cars got swept up in record time, much faster than their market-priced counterparts. Why would this be?
     
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  8. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2002
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    Another factor to keep in mind is the value of time off the road. You want to be able to get in and drive. You don't want to worry about something going wrong. Repairs can keep the car in the garage for months or even years depending on the nature of the work. Buy the best you can and enjoy it now; not after years of sorting.
     
  9. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

    Mar 9, 2004
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    Bob Lebenson
    A very nice one sold at the RM auction in Phoenix (Jan '07) for $220K.
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    6,059
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    I suspect that you can find a nice one in the $200k range if you are careful. That said, the market seems to be moving fast at the moment and prices seem to change daily.

    Good luck!

    Art S
     
  11. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
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    Is the stress of these old cars really worth it? Isn't a nice used 360 with air conditioning tempting at all?
     
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  13. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

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    That's two questions ... and my answers are YES and NO. :)
     
  14. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
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    Five years ago I wanted to buy 275gtb. I looked at Hemmings and saw one for 165K. I passed because it did not look like a good car.Most of the ones for sale were in the 200-225 range. I kept seeing one advertised for 300K restored in Southern California.I could not figure out why this car was so expensive. It said restored, but the ones advertised for the lower price said they were restored as well. I consider myself a good shopper and look for good deals, however if I knew then what I know now I would have purchased the 300K car. The car I ended up purchasing four years ago is just now finishing up a very expensive restoration. The 300K car eventually sold. As it turned out it was an alloy car restored by one of the top restoration shops in the US, and has won many awards in the last 4 years while my car has been in the shop. It might be done this year. Now,who got the better deal?
     
  15. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,439
    Bob-I am just having a bad day. Read my post above. I am hooked,addicted, and obsessed about Vintage Ferraris. Just can't wait to experience the driving experience for myself, now that I know every nut, bolt, and hoseclamp on the car. Not to mention every parts supplier in the world. The 300K would have been nice but at the same time, the restoration process has been a true learning experience, and now I know what I have.
     
  16. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    Don't worry, Matt. You may sound all hot under the collar, but everything you say is true.

    john
     
  17. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    I chose a 330GTC as my first Ferrari about three years ago. My methodology was fairly logical. I decided what type of car appealed to me based on my budget and what I wanted to do with the car. I only considered the very best cars available. It took over two years to find the right car, and during that time prices appreciated significantly. So, timing is fairly important. I found the best method to be to let as many of the "right" people know I was looking, and use all the resources available. That way, I knew I was looking at the largest possible selection of cars. I haven't regretted one minute or one dollar I've spent.

    Jack
     
  18. chris1866

    chris1866 Formula Junior
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    Mar 14, 2005
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    Dcate--i am just finishing a 3-year restoration on my 1968.
    It is for sale.
    I just sent you a PM.
     
  19. FERRARI-TECH

    FERRARI-TECH Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2006
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    Hi Dave,
    I just sent you a pm regarding a car we know of that is available.
     
  20. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
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    morris
    I am very shocked at the response from David to the post I made originally above. Two nasty PMs is over thew top.
    If you don't agree with me that is fine but arrogant and wrong I am not. I am now rebuilding my third 275,330 and know a little about the process. Let me not be cryptic and arrogant but rather direct.
    If you want to buy a 330gtc, a great car, you will have to be very careful. I have spent countless hours and money fixing supposedly perfectly rebuild jobs by some of the supposed best mechanics around. I personally think you will find a great 330gtc from a private party for arround $300,000. No? O.K. well how much do people think it costs to rebuild a 330gtc in todays market? $50,000.00, $100,000.00, $200.000.00?
     
  21. Dave330gtc

    Dave330gtc Formula Junior

    Mar 12, 2002
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    David Smith
    I know how much it costs to rebuild a GTC in today's market and you are pretty close with your highest estimate.
     
  22. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    6,059
    Central NJ
    Morris,

    It's probobly me, but I'm having trouble following your last post. Can you clarify? Which David sent you nasty PMs? Why? I think I missed something.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  23. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,439
    When people get into the Vintage Ferrari world for the first time, maybe after owning Porsches or Jags, they are really in for a big surprise as to how much stuff cost and how specialized these cars really are. Since I purchased my car 4 years ago I have met many great people on this chat room who have assisted me with issues and have gone out of there way to measure things, or send a photo of a specific part when I was in trouble. When you think about how small the Vintage Ferrari world really is, and at the same time be able to communicate with fellow owners about specific weird problems that only they can understand it is great. People like the owner of Prance have been wonderful to this forum as well as assisting me with problems with my restoration when I asked. It is upsetting that someone would send him a nasty PM when he tring to help, and is a person they should listen to. He knowns what is going on. He has paid the mechanics bills. The bottom line is that these cars are expensive to own. There are no bargans, but there are a lot of crap cars for sale. All the cars that sit on web sites for a long time for sale usually means something is wrong. WHO has worked on them means as much as the car itself. A car restored by David Carte, Patrick Ottis, or Norbert Hoffer, just to name a few, is going to be worth more because they do not take shortcuts in doing repairs. There is a reason these cars cost more. I just spent a small fortune and three years to mechanically restore a car that I thought was perfect when I bought it from a dealer. Now I have the car I thought I bought minus a hundred and twenty five grand. It seems that some soon to be V12 Ferrari owners searching for a car just do not want to hear the truth about how expensive things can be.... Estimate: Replace leaking yellow fuel line on 10 million dollar 250 GT0= $275 dollars. Replace same item on 330GTC =same cost.
     
  24. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
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    morris
    David Cate, the one who started this post.
    I am certainly open minded. If my posts seem arrogant, which I do not intend then there may be better ways to express that. Anyway thanks so far to Matt and dave330gtc for your support.
     
  25. yale

    yale Formula Junior

    May 2, 2004
    735
    New York City
    Regarding the Prance part of this discussion, in my limited experience I keep seeing people who want to get a Ferrari but don't want to be taken advantage of. They have heard all the horror stories and maybe with other purchases in their lives, or with their businesses, they feel they have done pretty well. So they feel they are going to take the same approach to something that is basically a foible. They are going to ask on forums like this about "real world benchmarks"

    And make comments like this:


    "Unlike you, I do not have an unlimited supply of money to lose. When buying a toy (or art, if you so prefer), I apply the same financial analysis that I apply to any investment. But, unlike an investment, I'm looking at how much it will cost me rather than how much it'll make me.

    In my case, I have to get to know a mkt before I buy anything, and, besides trying to find a car, is one of the reasons for my post.

    Again, unless money is in fact, truely, now object whatsoever, I see nothing inconsistent w/ wanting to know what's "happening with the money", and wanting the best car you can find....but that's just me.

    Sometimes I wonder if but some "Ferrari guys" want people to believe that if money is an object..."well, then buddy..hehe...you just can't afford one (unlike myself, of course, but, then again, we're just soooo unalike). "


    David the fact is, you probably have more money then many of us here + nobody in this section of the forum would ever make you feel unworthy because of your bank account. That is one of the beauties of the vintage Ferrari world as opposed to the modern exotic car world. This is about a passion for the cars, what they meant, how they feel and sound, and the pleasure of transporting oneself to another time.

    You are probably going to make a mistake, most of us have. You'll buy a car with more problems then you expected, most of us have. But at the end of the day you will be happy for what you have. And whatever price you think is fair for the car, well that was what they cost 6 months ago so get used to that as well.

    The person here who probably buys more cars then anyone else on this list, Tom Shaunessy, also inspects them or worries about them the least.

    The people who agonize the least about the purchase seem to be the happiest with what they bought.

    And everybody here is sincerely trying to help.

    Yale
     
  26. jsa330

    jsa330 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    With five years of all this under my belt, I can attest that these are some of the truest statements around.

    I haven't regretted buying my car for half a minute...I've had many cars, and enjoyed this one the most.

    See my profile pic. I'm going to get it fixed, repainted, and carry on.
     
  27. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    6,059
    Central NJ
    Yale,

    Morris mentioned several PMs. I didn't see any issues in the public posts, that's why I asked.

    In my opinion, getting into vintage Ferraris is definately jumping into the deep end of the pool - it's good to know you can swim before you take the plunge so I think words of caution are wise.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  28. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    SCOTT,

    I just looked at the picture. WHAT HAPPENED?!?!?!

    Art S.
     

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