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Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by damcgee, Oct 22, 2004.
ONE SEVENTY ONE !!! It may not be perfect, but I'm friggin' ecstatic!
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Good to go!!!!
Whoops! I missed that there was already another thread on this. Sorry
Prepare for the barrage of literature from Michigan State, Ave Maria, Thomas Cooley and Southwestern. With that score you'll get plenty of full scholarship offers from the #179th ranked law schools When are you going to come and visit?
Thanks for the encouragment.
I checked the little box that told them not to let non-ABA approved schools send me stuff. Are those other schools ABA approved?
Just a quick question, how does the LSAT compare to the GRE? It seems like many of the questions are similar, logical-thinking type questions.
I went online and did the sample critical reasoning section of the LSAT, it seems pretty straightforward. I had to take the GRE before starting grad school (not law school), scored a perfect 800 on 2 of the 3 sections.
It might be fun to take the LSAT, cold, with no pre-law background just to see how I'd do.
171 is 99% percentile, congratulations!
Congratulations. You are a very smart guy, and I know success will follow you in whatever path you choose to pursue. Keep in touch, and let me know if I can be of some help. Great news. Really happy for you buddy.
I am definitely catalouging (sp?) the contacts I make here, and I am already making sure I stay in touch with the people from undergrad that I know will be successful. PM me and remind what schools you're applying to?
The questions are of a similar type as the GRE "games" and the logic reasoning questions, however, they are 'kicked up a notch.' In books that cover multiple tests you will see the "hard" level GRE questions are "medium" LSAT questions.
That said, if you can get an 800 on the GRE verbal you'd be in good shape in getting ready for an LSAT. Teaching LSAT we would say a good benchmark for a minimum score is your SAT verbal score /100 + 100 (meaning a 700 verbal should be a 170+). I'm sure with some practice you could be right up there.
DO NOT take it cold though. I had a logic genius friend pull a 172 on his first cold practice and took the real thing without any study and still got around a 157, because question types he wasn't prepared for appeared. Scores are averaged, not highest taken, so once the damage is done it's done.
No prelaw background is necessary for law school, either, just a moderately convincing argument for why it would be useful to you.
A couple of things. First, You can download a sample LSAT absolutely free from www.lsac.org.
Second, my opinion is that it is <i>preferable</i> that you not have a pre-law degree to go to law school. Law schools are of the opinion that they can teach you everything you need to know about law in three years of school. They would like you to have something interesting to add by already being knowledgable about another discipline.
My undergrad was in business management, and I will almost certainly pursue some sort of corporate law. I wrote my personal statement about a business I started this summer.
If you have any questions, I will answer whatever I can, and what I cannot answer, Ryalex can almost certainly answer.
I would say definitely take the LSAT if you have any interest in law whatsoever. I was always intruiged (sp?) by law, so I took a sample test and scored about 166 or something like that. I did TONS of research and decided that I would either go to a top law school or not go to law school at all. I will have a definitive answer in the next few months.
Yes, schools laugh at "Criminal Justice" undergrad degrees. That is probably the worst choice for someone planning on going to law school, if only because programs in it tend not to be as rigorous or established (these are admissions officers' opinions I'm merely passing on). If one was interested in a "typical" prelaw curriculum it would be a liberal arts program in English, History, Econ, Int'l Relations or similar "social science" degrees.
The HOT thing right now is technical degrees. Seriously, a good math, science or engineering degree and an interest in intellectual property law (with any relevant work experience being a huge bonus), and you'd be a golden candidate for law.
Both Andy and Ryan did fantastic on the LSAT, congrats to you both and good luck with the next three years of LS.
Ryan, are you still considering U of Texas-Austin?
Ryalex, would a PhD in Mechanical Engineering, along with 10 years of work experience in machine design and product development qualify as a technical background? I considered patent law after the M.S. was finished, but I don't think I could convince my wife to move and go $100k+ in debt after the doctorate is completed next year. I'm probably getting too old to get another degree anyway.
You would be mint. With a high LSAT and being a desirable candidate, schools like Columbia, Chicago and NYU will offer up to full scholarship money. Yale, Stanford and Harvard only offer need-based money, but can be very generous if you're independant (from parents, sometimes up to 7 years) and have kids.
I'm in the camp who believes the debt from a top school is only a small consideration. Certainly it can be paid off handily considering salaries of starting lawyers, especially IP/patent lawyers who are pulling some $140k to start ($15k more than regular recruits), and it only gets better from there. If you have hefty debt already, perhaps you might be shy about it, but I thought your wife had a Mercedes ?
I think the only consideration should be whether you would actually like to do law work vs. the work you can in engineering.
The way patent law was described to me is that the shortage is so acute that even retards with engineering & law degrees command 200K+ if they have no idea what they are doing. Of course, exaggeration has a way of biting me in the ass...so that might be a little off.
Not 100% sure if you are referring to me, but if so, thank you very much for the kind words. Didn't want to steal Andy's thunder, but figured it deserved a response. Thanks buddy.
Never too old for your school. Get a law degree, you will be a valuable commodity. Tell the wife to put up with it, sell the silly Benz, and start climing the ladder.
LOL... in 99/00 this was likely very true, but since salaries have cooled (and not increased in 4 years really), I think they're probably pulling $135-140 base, plus a bonus which could be anywhere up to say $30k. Note that this is a *starting* salary though (for 25-27 year olds with no actual experience!), and within 4 years they would most likely be over 200.
I actually had the MS and PhD paid for with a fellowship that paid for all of the classes, books, and paid me a decent salary. Taught a few semesters in addition to that since I was already at the university, which was an hour from my home and where I worked. FWIW, the M-B will paid off next spring, and she will be keeping it.
In 2002 following some uncertainty with my employer's future I left and became an independant contractor. I still work for them full-time (all but about 4 months the last 3 years), plus I do other design projects for some other contacts I have. During the period of turmoil in the company, many people left, which of course increased the number of places I had an "in".
To make a long story short, I have been able to basically more than double my income during grad school, working/teaching/fellowship. I can't wait to finish my last two actual classes I have to take in December, then its just finishing the dissertation.
If we moved to say, NY or MA, she would have a very difficult time adjusting. We both have established careers. I've lived on Ramen and corn dogs, she hasn't and hopefully never will have to.
bonus? one word:
Yikes! Well, I think he'd still like to *see* his wife every once in a while. For the non-law folks, Wachtell Lipton Rosen & Katz is a smaller NY M&A boutique that is widely considered the most prestigious law firm in the USA, and are often at the top of the associate pay scales (with bonuses reaching investment banking levels) and the profits per partner listings, with several million a year per partner. However, it's also supposedly super intense and firm ritual is to have dinner together every night.
What's ironic is I have several friends who came in saying they were going to try and strike a work/life balance in finding a job, and then Wachtell or Cravath come calling and off they go into the salt mines!