Alan, we may have discussed this before, but.. I was at Aston Martin Works and Heritage today at Newport Parnell. Business visit but on the way out I saw a manual V12 Vantage coupe for sale. I had reviewed this on launch and asked to drive it today. It was the original V12, not the S, which the AM guys said was less authentic. Memories were right. It's a fantastic car. Snick snick manual, easier throw than my 575. Very alive and agile. Great response from V12 which feels much lazier in DBS and Vanquish of the same era. Great fun though a bit mad around roundabouts. Nice interior, and a two seater V12 manual super car. And it sounds way better than a Maranello. At around £80k it makes my manual 575 at more than double that seem expensive. OK, not as rare, but rarer than a 550. Worth considering.
I do keep looking at AM's and my head says they are worth considering. They are also very pretty cars. My heart wants a Maranello though. It was my poster car, I've thought it was an outstanding design from the first day I saw it and I still do. I'm not letting a single bad experience put me off. I remember the first few 575 F1's I drove and not one of them drove the same as another. It's just a case of right car right time and it will all come together. There's no rush, we're the wrong time of year, still in a pandemic and some sort of strange asset bubble. My Taycan CT arrives in January so there will at least be some form of new car novelty in the new year. In the meantime I have an empty garage waiting for when the right 550/575 happens.
After 10 very enjoyable months with an FF i have returned to the fold and swapped for this 550-grigio titanio with bordeaux and 14k miles on the clock. Couldn’t be happier and hoping this one will have better luck than my previous 550… Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sold for £70,500 (no buyers fees). Great buy for someone as a driver's car. Seemed like an amazing example.
That looks bang on the money to me. It also shows why the cars that have been for sale at the usual dealers for months/years are not selling at £90K or £100K plus asking prices. The appetatie for these cars is around the £70K figure for a maintained driver example.
Foskers called me last week with a lovely 575M F1 in TDF over beige. https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/12625927 It's the car I drove back in 2018 at Meridien Modena, still for sale after 4 attempts at auction (with a highest bid of £63,000) and with two main dealers plus two lesser known dealers. It was traded to Foskers from Stream cars (confirmed by Foskers - I asked them when they called me) where it was for sale for 6 months or so asking £71,995 https://www.streamcars.co.uk/cars/ferrari/575m/ferrari/472510/
It looks like a nice one. However, at more than 40,000 miles, the market for any modern Ferrari becomes limited. Prices are where we were in 2015: £80-£90k for a very nice 550, £70-£80k for the good but leggier ones. Maybe a garage monarch would fetch over 100k, but at that “collecting” level it’s about uniqueness, which is why the WSRs will fetch more, even though they are really just optioned up. F1 575s a notch below the 550 prices. As you have observed, Alan, the problem is that there are very few really nice Maranellos on the market. A kind of stasis.
Sadly, I think JayEmm is right. Better enjoy 'em -- or flip 'em (if that's your thing) -- while we can.
Watched this video this morning. I disagree with him if we think on a world stage. I think the folks in the UK maybe screwed, but in the States we get the "Rules for thee, but not for me thing" which is how Bill Gates spent millions having the laws changed so he could import and drive his 959 on public roads. Some other billionaire (trillionare by then) will want to drive their ICE car on the public roads, so exceptions will be made and we will all just pay Porsche to have a 50 gallon drum of e-Fuel dropped off at our house for summer drives.
There is logic to the theory that, once ICE powered cars are no longer on sale (which will vary from one country to another, but some time between 2030 and 2040 in most parts), there will start to be a decline in the number of ICE cars on the road by natural wastage, and thus a decline in the demand for petrol / diesel fuel which will undermine the viability of fuel stations, which will lead to a shortage of fuel stations and an increase in prices at the pumps, and more ICE cars being scrapped and this will become an accelerating trend leading into a vicious spiral, resulting in fuel for ICE engines simply no longer being available because all the fuel stations have closed. At that point, how many people will want to buy a car they cannot drive?
I would respectfully disagree with that. Fuel as we know it will still need to be produced in enormous quantities for the shipping, aviation and other industries for many decades. So the basic process will be there, and there will be enough demand for car fuel from everything from countries which have not signed up to banning ICE engines to those making exceptions (maybe the US, for rural and agricultural communities) and petrolheads like us. You also have significant manufacturers lobbying for an exception to be made in the manufacture of internal combustion engines beyond the cut-off date for specialist cars, on the basis that the carbon footprint is minuscule. They’re also much more eco-friendly alternative fuels that are being developed – the technology is still in its infancy but there will be enough demand to bring these into the world, potentially extending internal combustion engines of a certain type indefinitely. I can see a situation where internal combustion engine cars are banned from Paris or London, for example, but I can’t see a situation where petrol will be unavailable to anyone who wants it enough, any time in the next 50 years or more.
While I agree with the overall point, I don't think it's going to happen even within our lifetimes. Another basic thought is just the overwhelming number of people who can not afford to buy newer electric cars or maintain them even if they somehow could purchase it. How would the governments go about getting those people out of ICE cars? Forcing the situation is not feasible. Overall if you just stop allowing the production of new ICE cars and let the economics of it take it's course, the tipping point is going to be very far in the future where it wouldn't matter for ours, or even our children's lifetimes.
Even poorer people are typically driving cars that are 10-20 years old. Older than that, and they cease to be an option for those with limited income, and tend to be the play things of those with an interest in running them. By 2050, combustion cars will not be for the masses in either the US or UK, meaning that fuel is bound to be vastly more expensive to come by. There's no way this isn't going to significantly depress the values of cars like ours.
Robin, higher fuel prices are inevitable for sure. And they may help kill run of the mill used cars. But how many Ferrari owners base their purchase on fuel prices or fuel mileage? We tend to do low mileages, we tend to be relatively wealthy by definition, we tend to have accounted for maintenance costs. We have a lot of buffer before we sell our cars because fuel is more expensive. There will be a few exceptions, but fuel is a tiny proportion of my running costs on my Ferraris and I think I am typical.
I agree that fuel isn’t that big a deal at this point- £1.50 per litre on a £100k car that does 2000 miles a year seems ok. Assuming 15 mpg average, that means you’re spending about 1% of the car’s value every year on fuel. Imagine that with everything that’s going to happen, that your £100k car is only worth £30k (equivalent) in 2050 (not completely beyond the bounds of reason, but a guess nonetheless), and imagine that fuel is now £15 per litre (entirely possible in my view), and you’re now looking at spending 30% of the car’s value every year on fuel. That starts to seem pretty material, right? And the worst thing is that the cycle is self fulfilling- the more expensive these cars become to run, the less desired they will be. All speculation in my humble opinion. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I agree, the prospects are daunting, and I often think about how fortunate we all have been to have lived in the golden age of automotive history. Speaking for myself, this really is a just a hobby and I've always considered myself strictly a driver without any consideration towards the financial aspects. I've seen more than a few booms and busts in the automotive world and although it's inconvenient, those that are born with Hi-Test fuel in their veins find a way to get through it and are there when things pick up again. How many of us remember the Ralph Nadar days and what followed into the 70's and 80's to say nothing of the Oil Embargo and the tidal wave of events that caused on automotive design and performance. I remember auto enthusiast back then prophesizing the automobile as we knew was dead and actually for a couple of decades it was at least comatose, but ultimately technology prevailed, and things came back around.. No one really knows how things will play out, but in the meantime, I'm counting up all the Smiles per Mile I can get before they finally pull the plug on us. My wife's hobby which happens to be horses shared how during the turn of the century we ultimately transitioned from an agrarian society where the horse was strictly utilitarian to the industrial age and where now the horse is considered in large part a "Pleasure Horse". So although one can't really ride anywhere you want, they've found ways to keep their hobby alive. They either own rural properties, have their own indoor riding arenas, live in areas adjacent to large tracts of land and or Parks, or have to pay the expense of boarding at lavish Equestrian facilities. Believe me they write checks just like we do but I rarely ever hear a discussion about the financials. It's strictly a hobby and it costs what is cost. I learned that lesson early on in my marriage and I've never contested it since. It wouldn't surprise me to see more Private Tracks / Country Clubs for folks just like us where we can keep our cars, drive them the way we want and have all the amenities we desire at our disposal for the weekend. Yea, things may change but the diehards will find a way to keep their hobby/passion alive.
I bought the 550 mentioned above (sold for 70k). Early signs are good and I’m very positively surprised how easy it is to drive. Gear change, steering and visibility is superb. Drove it on small UK backroads this weekend and found it really easy to place on the road which I hadn’t expected. It went straight to my mechanic for a major check over for work to do over the winter. It has been a long wait but it feels great finally getting into Ferrari V12 ownership and I really can’t wait to explore it next year.
Congratulations. You will also find this to be the most supportive community of owners and enthusiasts as well as a wealth of information!
Thanks for the replies guys. I’ve been reading the forums on and off for the last few years just to get a better feel for the car and the ownership experience. The depth of knowledge is incredible and I will take a closer look in the coming weeks to work out what preventative maintenance I should prioritise and any useful updates that are worth doing.
Anyone know much about this leggy one for sale at KHPC? Used Cars | Maidstone, Kent | Kent High Performance Cars (tfcgb.com) Could be a great buy if its had the 'Trigger's Broom' treatment (or Ship of Theseus, for our more learned contributors)
