To keep the Ferraris, you offer a house and a new Honda mini van! Works every time! And it's SO entertaining to hear the lawyer's teeth grinding! Happy Holidays to all posters and lurkers on this marvelous thread..... From the Dome Tent, BigTex billnoon new chatter 'pippo' is looking for a 1977 308GTB red/tan.....no personal knowledge of any right now.......I offered to respray one of mine!
i know i'm just a newb, but i miss marcel his contributions were amazing hope this isn't a repost, first i've seen of it http://www.forbes.com/2000/12/11/1214vehiclesate.html
"The ideal starter Ferrari depends on your personal budget. With $50,000 you should buy a Dino 246 GTS--beautiful lines, great sound, even if it's only a six-cylinder Ferrari" Well this has certainly changed in a few years...
one of the reasons i got involved with ferrari chat was what i learned from M M. i did have some disagreements with him over reproduction cars,mostly before i really knew who he was. i have come to respect his vast knowedge of the cars we are all so interested in and really miss his involvement. i would encourage any of you who have his e-mail to encourage him to come back at least with his knowledge. if he never posts another picture we all will understand..tongascrew george
I hope when I grow up that I have my own thread on FChat where people can say both good(mostly true), and bad (mostly wrong) things about me. Marcel and his lovely wife were in Palm Beach for Cavallino, and doing well. The gentlman as always, even though I can't spell correctly.
One thing that concerns me lately is some high profile historians worried about the weight of their words and the liability there. Rumor is some users with resources hint at legal action when things arent as they like. That really disappoints me. I need to work on our forum rules and terms of use to minimize this from happening. Yes, legal matters are a fact of life, especially in our high profile interest, but Ive found 99.9% of the time legal threats are thrown around like candy and theres never any intention to do anything. We need to keep these types of threats out of the community, if someone actually sues, then thats another matter, thats the real deal.
I don't think those are rumors. sabres get rattled here in threads all the time, and sometimes they're big time players with plenty of money to follow up on their threats. There is no lack of moolah here to back up the threat to sue perhaps the folks who get threatened should forward the pm or email to you, or Fchat's legal wing so that you can be kept up to date on the goings on. yes, but they certainly dampen spirits and debate, on many issues here when those threats are tossed about. GFL on that one, although I'd certainly love to see that happen. Which if it hasn't happened yet, is bound to. Unfortunately it's a fact of life, here as everywhere else. Can't take it? Sue? Lose? Sue again. Win? GLOAT. DM
Rob This is a non issue. Reputable Historians with reputable historical judgements based on what they believe to be true with reasonable basis have nothing to fear and they know it even if what they post and believe turns out not to be true. Holocaust deniers and reckless defamers do and should have something to worry about. Marcel's leaving FCHAT had nothing to fear of being sued. Best
i Respect you, i Respect also many people here. owner or not, different people from each part of the world, i like to come in this forum because it s possible to see, read, learn many things, all seems so easy here. Ask a question and you received a reply from the Texas, or from Perth Australia... i never been there, i know nobody in this place. but it s cool, it s a great pleasure for me. Everybody have his own feeling, we are all different, rich ,poor, we are black white, yellow, idiot, clever,...i accept, no problem. Sur it s difficult to devide moods ones and others, i m not rancurous, because we don t have the same point of view. If an other Historian, don t want to come here because he s" worried about the weight of their words and the liability there " i will be not furios towards him because he made a mistake about a SN or Model. i will be not furious towards him because i have learn thouhands things with him, and i don t know how i can say Thank you.
Christian, thank you for coming on to FChat. It is people such as you, from other countries, who add a perspective different from ours, that makes this site so interesting. Merci pour partager vos idees.
Those on the aggression side are pretty clear where the line is as they're holding the trigger. Those on the subject side aren't as sure where lines falls on various subjects and various individuals. There are individuals with justification and I don't think that will catch out any of the experienced and respected historians, then there are some lunatics that seem to make a sport of it and will go after anyone for anything. Most historians aren't on the mound of money side and even a baseless attempt can hurt them. Jim, I think the sensitivity and reluctance of historians to be completely active on FerrariChat.com because of legal risk is more prevalent than you think.
"There are individuals with justification and I don't think that will catch out any of the experienced and respected historians" That I agree with.
"I don't think those are rumors. sabres get rattled here in threads all the time, and sometimes they're big time players with plenty of money to follow up on their threats." Am I the only one who finds it amusing that a "big time player" would feel the need to litigate his car's honor? Here we (I've done it) criticize the woman who sues McDonald's for her coffee burns, but then threaten to clutter up the courts with lawsuits about Ferraris. Noblesse oblige? Stone cold dead.
I don't know, I think the lawsuit over 0818 is pretty interesting and the outcome may have a large effect on many things. I think Egon was right to sue. I think Coco's lawsuit on 0814 was interesting as well and I'm glad he won that one. Best
The second involved 250 LM 5149 and Coco won that one as well. Next time we get together I'll fill you in but this is public record albeit the original court documents are so far as I know in Italian. There's an interesting article in the new SCM on the subject of Experts which mentions one who has posted on FCHAT and tangled with other members. (Not me although I am on the side of Coco and Dr. Stu in that case a different one than the one mentioned in the article) "There is a reason the catalog description of 750 094 does not refer to the Phillippe Olczyk Alfa Romero TZ book. Specifically, the information provided in the chassis database/history section has been described at best as unreliable and at worst, untruthful." In a separate discussion involving another car and a different "Expert" who publicly proclaimed that an eyewitness to the 1967 Le Mans fire involving 0846, the driver of the car Chris Amon no less, told him that 0846 was completely destroyed by that fire. A photo, copyrighted by BBC, taken at Le Mans of 0846 the morning after the fire clearly proves that that is not true. As the SCM article points out in the end it's the metal that tells the tale and the marketplace in the case of the TZ was able to access the "Expert" and the metal and come to it's own conclusion. Being "at best unreliable" is one thing. Being "at worst, untruthful" is quite another. I look forward to this Expert's comments on the SCM Article. I also look forward to what Dr. Stu has to say. It would make a good thread in the Vintage section... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Because of that I can see why you don't wish to comment and perhaps this is what Rob was talking about however if Mr. Olczyk feels that the article in SCM is false as it describes his book as I've said I look forward to having him post the reasons he feels it's not correct. Besides the issue of how his book is characterized by SCM there's the more important one in this case. I believe that SCM has stated that Mr. Olczyk feels that the car in question was completely destroyed in a fire in France even listing the address of the fire in his book. The auction house feels that the metal says that it was not and this is the rebuilt car. There is also a lot of discussion about the nature of race cars and what happens to them which of course is opinion. Was the car completely destroyed in a fire as was Salt's Ford GT which BTW was rebuilt and recently ran at Historic Le Mans or wasn't it completely destroyed by fire as 0846 wasn't completely destroyed by fire as the BBC Photo clearly proves? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Curious about the destroyed GT, was that 1029? I have met the owner of 1029 which was crashed at LeMans. The car was crashed during qualifying as he told me, suffered so much damage that it wasn't worth sending back to the states. He hired a local farmer to dig a hole and they buried the car. I believe that 1029 exists is some form. The only thing I could think of was that the team sold all the extra parts to someone who constructed the vehicle from that. warm regards ken Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm not talking about the GT40....I'm talking about a problem regarding postings about Alfa TZs and Olczyk's book on them, made of the Alfa BB and on the Atlas nostlgia forum. As to the GT40 specifivally, there is a bill of sale for something (see above posting), so I guess someone at the the time considered it still a car. Just got an e-mail from Marcel. He said to simply let everyone know that he is VERY, VERY busy, and doesn't really have any time for this forum until July, at the earliest. It is nothing personal with anyone...
Hi The one I posted photo's of was owned by Salt Walther and burned in his garage. The remains and title were sold at auction. Best
