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Maser Fast Murcie Slow

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Napolis, Jan 16, 2004.

  1. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    The lap times are out and they are fast. This brings up a problem that the latest "AutoSports" has an article about. Aston's. Jag's, Lambo's, MB's, Maser's, and P cars all racing eachother a la the 60's would be great BUT street based cars such as the Murcie GTR don't have a chance against "street legal" race car such as the Maser/Enzo. This is a real prob. for the FIA.
    For your information:

    0'56"33 F2003-GA (2003, MS)
    0'58"38 F2002 (2002, MS)
    0'59"00 F1 310B (1997, MS)
    1'00"31 F1 412T1 (1994, Alesi)
    1'11"90 Ferrari 333SP (slicks)

    1'12"808 Maserati MCC (14.01.04)

    1'18"90 360 N-GT
    1'22"30 Enzo (2003)
    1'22"40 360 Challenge
    1'25"093 Maserati Trofeo (Luciano Burti)
    1'25"40 355 Challenge (1997?, wing, slicks, Nicola Larini)
    1'26"50 355 Challenge (1995, no wing, streets)
    1'27"00 F50
    1'28"00 F50 (1995)
    1'28"00 360 Challenge Stradale
    1'29"60 F40
    1'30"00 F40 (1987)
    1'30"00 360 Modena
    1'31"50 360 Modena
    1'31"50 F40 (Gerhard Berger)
    1'31"51 575M Maranello
    1'32"53 550 Maranello
    1'33"00 348 Challenge
    1'33"00 575M Maranello
    1'33"00 F355 F1 (1997)
    1'34"00 F355 (1994)
    1'34"00 550 Maranello (1997)
    1'35"00 F512M (1995)
    1'35"00 512TR (1992)
    1'35"00 456GT
    1'35"00 Maserati 4200GT
    1'36"00 Testarossa (1984)
    1'37"00 348TB (1989)
    1'37"00 288GTO (?)
    1'37"00 Porsche 959 (?)
    1'40"00 456GT (1992)

    The time's before when this happened it was like Pandora opening her box.
    In the 60's when the big Fords stomped Ferrari 4 years in a row Ferrari went home.
    In the 70's when the 917-30 went 0=200 in 12 seconds t5he CanAm seris ended.
    Hopefully the FIA will find up with a way to keep it a race rather than a stomping.
     
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  3. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO , Ferrari should have introduced the Stradale before the Competizione. Just to stick with ( to ? ) the rules..

    It will be BPR championship 1997 all over again..:(
     
  4. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    napolis - do you have a link to this article?

    what track are these numbers from?

    and what were the murcie numbers?

    tia,
    doody.
     
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Those are lap time for Fiorano.
     
  6. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I would love to know who lapped Fiorano 2 sec faster than gerhard Berger in an F40 :) ..
     
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  8. AnotherDunneDeal

    AnotherDunneDeal F1 Veteran

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  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Those time are from F posted on their Maser site at their track Fireno.
    The Murcie GTR wasn't tested but if you compare the cars that were you see that it and everyone else are in REAL trouble with street based, space frames rather than carbon tubs. Looking at these numbers unless the Maser is penalized with weight and more restriction the Murcie, MB/McLaren, P GT2, Jag?, Aston? won't be able to compete much like what andrew alluded to in his post.
     
  10. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

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    So basicly your talking out of your A$$.
     
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  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    No I'm not I'm comparing lap times of the Murcie GTR in the article you posted. I've driven both tracks and know relative times.The Murcie GTR is in big trouble. It's a fine street car esp. for the $ you can buy a used one for, esp. compared to a 360 or a 550 or a 575 but as a race car it's going to get stomped by the Maser/Enzo which is why I'm buying one instead of a Murcie.
     
  13. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

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    why is he talking out of his ass, allan?

    he's simply stating that the Maser MCC is performing in a class above the "race cars made from road cars", and it's going to potentially create a mess competitively.

    it's 10 seconds faster than the enzo. it's unlikely that any lamborghini (or jag or aston or whatever) race car built off a road car is going to be able to compete with this, which could mean either the class or classes will get really boring or it'll trigger an arms race of unpleasant proportions.

    just one man's opinion.

    doody.
     
  14. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    It's just what Enzo did, whenever he got the chance.

    Read the Rules, find a new class, if he could afford to build the minimum quantity, line 'em up, kick some tail.

    Porsche did, too. Lambo can, too. Ante up, cut, shuffle and deal!

    How is this different from a factory 333SP team showing up in a sleepy IMSA series? It was some great racing against the R&S Ford, while it lasted. I was there, along with a couple of other fans, at TWS.

    Obvious marketing decision to use the Maser Trident in lieu of the Prancing Pony. I guess somebody will buy 'em.
     
  15. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
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    So a 355 Challenge car on street tires beats an F50? Uh No.

    And two stock Modenas outrun a Berger-driven F40? Uh No again.

    And a 360 Challenge car throws down a time that's only .1 off of an Enzo's? Uh No x 3.

    This is the problem whenever anyone whips out Fiorano times, we have no idea what the controlset was for the tests, what the weather was like, etc.

    Useless.
     
  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Jim,

    You have made the right decision waiting for the MCC, it looks like it kicks the Enzo into the waste of time catagory.

    Again this just proves my point: Enzo was designed as a prop, not a real car with racing performance, and now when they developed the same concept FOR REAL RACING they have found 10 seconds!!!

    That is such a huge amount of time in a single lap that I would be embarrassed to own an Enzo! Plus a 360 N-GT beat the Enzo!!!!

    While we never know the conditions, best lap times on the same track are far MORE a useful comparison that 0-60 times, etc.

    Real roads have corners :)

    Pete
     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Instead of spouting do the math. Look up the article Alan posted. Note the times of the GTR. Note the times of the 360 NGT. Read the AutoSport article.
    As my friend Mark said "When the flag drops the bullsh*t stops"
    The flag is about to drop on the Murcie GTR.
    I'm betting on and buying a Maser/Enzo.
     
  18. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    Jim:
    Nothing like a good stomping if you're standing in grapes, though. I'm trying to get MCC as well, I didn't make the cut for the Enzo...guess I don't have enough bling ;)

    Bare carbon was quite handsome on the proto. Stealthy too. Hmmmm.

    How's the P-car? Geez, CNN and MT too? (nice pic of the Jcar in Monterey coverage)

    Lee
     
  19. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
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    I'm not debating the argument regarding the GTR versus the MCC or an Enzo. The GTR certainly has its work cut out for it. What I am saying is that Fiorano times being used as a benchmark for F-cars over the years is misleading due to not knowing the weather conditions, the type of tires being used, etc, and I showed a few examples that are certainly suspect based on "doing the math" as you said.

    Take your meds Napo. :)
     
  20. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Pic's in Vintage section. We're heading out to collect it. J car is dreaming of spring.
    Best
     
  21. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Why thank you. :)



    Psk - Real roads have corners. LMAO...!
     
  22. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Wait a sec , the MCC is a race car..It was most probably on slicks and set up as a race car..The Stradale will probably much slower.Might be faster than an Enzo but then why not ? The car is based on the Enzo and 2 years younger...
     
  23. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    ROFLMAO...
    You're not my type, but it's NNO problem :p
    When you look sharp, you feel sharp :D
     
  24. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

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    Personally, who cares which is faster on the track. I do like the look of the new Maserati race car though. Will there be a roadgoing version? Now, if that was priced similarly to a Murci, id be interested.
     
  25. richard

    richard Formula 3

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    Most of us find humor in the fact that Lamborghini has never had a real factory-backed racing program, and any time they try to, they get slapped down by the big dogs -- even though they make good exotic street cars, they have no race heritage which counts for a lot. Perhaps that is why you hedged your bets and own both a Ferrari and Lamborghini? ;)

    On a more serious note, I am in eager anticipation of the race-version of the Carrera GT that Porsche will almost surely run in the same class (FIA-GT). If its Enzo-ousting lap times around the Nordschleife are any indicator, it should give the Maserati a run for its money! All in good sport, though -- I love all of the cars mentioned...Murcielago included! :)
     
  26. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

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    Having race heritage means absolutely nothing to me.

    In all honesty, the ONLY reason i have the 355 is because of my wife and her wanting a convertible. If there was a Gallardo Spyder, it would be outta here. She has said that i can get rid of the 355 also, if we buy a Hummer H2, but id rather have the 355, even though i rarely, if ever drive the Ferrari. Id also trade for a Porsche 996TT.

    I wanted a 512TR or M, but she didnt.
     
  27. richard

    richard Formula 3

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    To each, his own :)
     

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