Massini Report (275 GTB/4 09413) | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Massini Report (275 GTB/4 09413)

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by runflat, Oct 6, 2015.

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  1. 375+

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    #76 375+, Oct 8, 2015
    +1 I think that all of the regulars to the Vintage section feel that way. He is a remarkable intellect and a generous man. Our sincere thanks Marcel.
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #77 BigTex, Oct 8, 2015
    Maybe...as a comment only, I offer the prototype 512BB, #19271...had engine stamping (outside, on the block pad) 00004.

    Which it would seem to me, begs the question of the disposition of the first three!
    :D :D
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #78 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
    To the best of my knowledge 10245 has no factory fitted outside fuel filler cap.
    10245 is a steel bodied 4-cam, not alloy (see also short rain gutter, there was no need for the long rain gutter to cover the alloy seam).
    10245 arrived in New York only mid-August 1967. Car & Driver mag (with Peak's 09413 in it) is from October 1967.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #79 BigTex, Oct 8, 2015
    Pull the carpets and door panels, and go hunting...

    There are always regions of over spray at the factory that escape the most extensive respray....sometimes under the undercating...
     
  5. DWR46

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    #80 DWR46, Oct 8, 2015
    Marcel: The October 1967 issue of Car & Driver was mailed to subscribers to be received around September 1st (that is when I received my issue). It would appear on the newsstands about two weeks later. The actual article would have been at the printers by August 1st. Article was probably photographed and written in June or early July.
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #81 BigTex, Oct 8, 2015
    Well said!!

    3C vs. 6C easily changed also....well, in the day, easily changed.
    Now, the parts would be $$$$
     
  7. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #82 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Unfortunately I do not have the factory build sheets for 09713 and therefore cannot answer the question. It is possible that an engine exchange is mentioned on those papers.
    Here is 09713 freshly restored at the January 2015 Palm Beach Cavallino Classic.

    Marcel Massini
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  8. Marcel Massini

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    #83 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
    That is what I am saying.
    10245 is too late for that article. Did not arrive in time in USA.
    In addition to that, the steering wheel of 09413 (Bob Peak's car) was in wood, the steering wheel of 10245 (John Cuccio's car) was in leather (factory documents).
    The pix in "Car & Driver" magazine 10/1967 clearly show a wooden steering wheel.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. 375+

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    #84 375+, Oct 8, 2015
    The $64,000 road test issue of Car and Driver was Sept. 1968, not 1967. I believe that the car tested was 10245 owned by John Cuccio. Car and Driver previously published a road test of an earlier 4cam, that car was owned by Bob Peak.
     
  10. 375+

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    #85 375+, Oct 8, 2015
    Were all 275 GTB 6 carb's stamped Type 275 6C on the chassis member?
     
  11. Marcel Massini

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    #86 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
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    I am talking about Bob Peak and 09413 (this thread).

    Marcel Massini
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  12. 375+

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    #87 375+, Oct 8, 2015
    The Sept. 1968 issue had a better cover.
     
  13. Caeruleus11

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    #88 Caeruleus11, Oct 8, 2015
    I've been a lurker on this thread. I just want to say thank you to everyone for sharing your insights. Specifically to Mr. Massini. Although I don't post too often in the vintage section, I really do enjoy reading the threads here and learning about the cars.
     
  14. SonomaRik

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    #89 SonomaRik, Oct 8, 2015
    I love the minutia/detail and how it applies to the interpretation of dollars to sense [sic]
     
  15. runflat

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    #90 runflat, Oct 8, 2015
    Originally Posted by Marcel Massini View Post

    OK...now have some time to answer the questions posed by MM:

    Rick:

    Did you have a proper documentation book about 09413 at your auction? The Classiche Red Book was available to all to review.

    Did that documentation folder/book include the factory build sheets for 09413? Yes

    When did you first personally see the factory build sheets for 09413? Yesterday? After I had posted them on fchat? I saw them prior to the auction.

    Did any of the "heavy hitters" (see above) personally check all that documentation? Most all I know of examined the Red Book in detail.

    Did you explain those "heavy hitters" the factory remarks regarding the engine? I did not. My partner Terry Price discussed the car with any potential as he had owned it previously and had sold it to Vance Shappley.

    Who said the car had an engine replacement AFTER the car was completed? That was the general consensus I heard based on the Massini Report, which was referenced by at least three of the potential buyers.

    Who said the car had an engine replacement AFTER the car had actually left the factory? Again, that was another conclusion I heard based on the Massini Report, which was referenced by at least three of the potential buyers.

    The car was sold. It has a new home and will remain there in perpetuity. The buyer is happy. I am pleased. Vance Shappley is pleased.

    I'll not share the heavy hitter list on this forum as its certainly not appropriate, but if you email me personally I'll share one with you (who you will know) I think was heartbroken he couldn't get past the engine mystery and simply didn't buy the car. Perhaps you will want to reach out to him.
     
  16. Marcel Massini

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    #91 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
    Great to hear that Mr. W. is happy and you are pleased.

    Marcel Massini
     
  17. Marcel Massini

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    #92 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
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  18. 375+

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    #93 375+, Oct 8, 2015
    Thanks Marcel. Did the data plate in the engine compartment agree with chassis stamping, or not in every case?
     
  19. Marcel Massini

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    #94 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
    Did not.
    Some data plates just say "275 GTB" (on a 6C), others "275 GTB/6C".
    Do not apply today's perfect world where everything is bullet proof, checked and controlled, organised, robotized, structurized. 275's were built in the mid-60s, by human beings. Life was different back then.

    Marcel Massini
     
  20. 275gtb6c

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    #95 275gtb6c, Oct 8, 2015
    Good question! Now I am curious if Marcel will disclose this information...if of course applicable for any of these numbers.

    Ciao
    Oscar

    Ps ah already answered
     
  21. BBBBBBB

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    #96 BBBBBBB, Oct 8, 2015
    Very well said.

    Unfortunately it seems we have too many "investors" in the field at the moment which seem not to understand the "product" (lol) that they "buy" or "invest" into.

    I think many of the "investors" will leave the field once the interest rates will go upwards...

    Carissimi saluti
    Ben
     
  22. of2worlds

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    #97 of2worlds, Oct 8, 2015
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  23. Marcel Massini

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    #98 Marcel Massini, Oct 8, 2015
    10245 would have been much more attractive.

    Marcel Massini
     
  24. jm2

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    #99 jm2, Oct 8, 2015
    I remember looking at that issue while sitting in my college classes
    Cemented my goal of someday owning a Ferrari :)
     
  25. of2worlds

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    #100 of2worlds, Oct 8, 2015
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    The art director Gene Butera probably agreed with this idea; it is a 'car' magazine. Here you can see the car and the girl both made the cover...
    Back then the only way you could tell the color of the Ferrari was to see it on the magazine cover. The magazine, except for a few color advertisements was all in black & white.
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