Max Verstappen | Page 131 | FerrariChat

Max Verstappen

Discussion in 'F1' started by CRG125, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Had the other teams known of Merc's development advantage they would have rejected it. Lack of intel. Hindsight is a wonderful thing :D
     
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  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Red Bull's secret weapon is called Adrian Newey. ;)

    Previously also used by McLaren and Williams.
     
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  4. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    How many times did we see Mercedes turn their engines down to 7 for a cruise to victory ?
    :D
     
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  5. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    If only Williams could lure him back
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    First 3 years, every single race.
     
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  8. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Negotiations are like a poker game: no player has to show its cards first.
    You keep looking for excuses to blame Mercedes for the failure of other teams.

    Had McLaren played their cards right with Honda, they could have been in contention for the title since 2015/16 with Alonso.
    Look how Red Bull cooperates intelligently with the Japanese engineers, and gets the results.

    Had Ferrari operated to a better level when they had a winning car, Vettel may have won 2 more titles.
    Instead he struggled, lost heart and started to make stupid mistakes.
     
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  9. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Fully agree on the first part.
    Red Bull is demonstrating very efficient partnership with Honda.
    Disagree on the last part, 2017-2018 Ferrari cars weren’t true Championship contenders because of PU weaknesses.
    And C’mon, Ferrari isn’t responsible for Vettel stupids mistakes aka Singapore and Baku 2017 !
     
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  10. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Ferrari was comprehensively out developed as well after summer break.
    Had Ferrari had Max as a driver those years we might be talking a different story though, certainly for 2017.
     
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  11. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Are you talking about Max in 2017 or Max the last two years ?
    Because in 2017 he was pretty inexperienced.
    Yep
    Out developed twice in 2017-2018.
    But Vettel wasted two wins at least ..
     
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  13. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    An almost front of grid car often makes the driver try harder--harder enough to take (what in retrospect) looks like un-race-worthy risks.
     
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  14. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Both...

    2017 yes inexperienced, but also massively quick. He wasn't in a car competitive for the win 95% of the time so greater risks are taken at times.
     
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  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    I agree.

    Complicit Todt is to blame for Mercedes dominance.
     
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You keep looking for something machiavelic to explain Mercedes "dominance".

    It was simply due to technical superiority. Period.
     
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  17. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran

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    And zero server disconnects. This is the perspective Max is coming from. I think he probably has a point.

    +1000
     
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  18. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Bingo, that's exactly it.
     
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  19. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Yes. A superiority due to Mercedes significant headstart advantage, alongside baked-in FIA protection. As you suggest, there's nothing wrong with such in "sport"
     
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  20. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Strange that we never heard any team principal complain about the situation, don't you think ?

    They don't seem to believe in conspiracy theories, and know the real facts.

    Probably because they don't take clues from forums. ;)
     
  21. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

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  22. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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  23. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    #3270 jpalmito, Jan 24, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023
    • QUOTE="william, post: 148965968, member: 34653"]Montezemolo confessing his mistake and crying over spilled milk. You call that fact ?
      [/QUOTE]
    His confession is pretty honest I would say.
    Why is this so difficult for you to admit Mercedes was smarter than the others ?
     
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  24. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    It's a fact that Mercedes had a 7 year headstart on hybrid, which was then protected by the FIA under Todt.

    It"s also a fact that Mercedes had dominance for a 7 year run, until Todt began clearing out his desk.

    Previous long term dominations, EG Schumacher/Ferrari have seen the FIA step in with swift & heavy changes to halt such dominance. Rightly so.

    But that didn't happen under Todt's reign.
     
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  25. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Why look for excuse ? Todt ? Lauda ? de Montezemolo ? and other fancy plots to explain 8 years of dominance ?

    Why is it so difficult for the detractors to admit Mercedes technical superiority during those years ?

    A winner should be praised, and not blamed him for its success.
     
  26. SS454

    SS454 Formula Junior

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    Nobody is blaming Mercedes. The chassis and aero departments had to do a good job too, otherwise they would just be like Williams (14-16). Great engine, crap car.

    But you can't deny having what I always thought was a 3 year headstart in a brand new formula is a huge advantage. I don't recall when the official decision to go to Hybrid v6 turbo engines was made, but according to LdM, Mercedes had upwards of 7 years to develop their PU. That's unbelievable. When you consider the development rate under the restricted rules of the FIA, Ferrari for example found about 100 horsepower between 2014 and 2016.
     
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  27. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    All this is proof of technical superiority.
    Having in your toolbox different engine technologies available, having already researched and developed them are proof of the advance Mercedes had. There is nothing diabolic or reprehensible about that. Why the other manufacturers were so far behind?
    What is unfair about having an advantage you have earned ?
    Also, what have the other engine builders done between the time the engine formula was officially adopted and when it was finally introduced ? Did they sit on their thumbs ?
    If Mercedes isn't to blame, why keeping this argument over and over again to discredit their success ?
     
  28. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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