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MERGED: Fiorano Track times for various cars

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Brian C. Stradale, Nov 14, 2003.

  1. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    109
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    More lap times.

    Ferrari F2002 0.57.476
    Maserati Trofeo 1.23.848
    Ferrari Enzo Ferrari 1.25.30 (Suspicious due to earlier stated 1.23.30)

    Ciao
    Peter
     
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  3. saiid

    saiid Karting

    Jan 6, 2004
    52
    London, UK
    Those 575 M times are without the F-pack right? Has anyone got times with. I'd really like to see the difference.
    Thanks.
     
  4. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    109
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Anyone else that have Fiorano lap times to add to the list?

    Ciao
    Peter
     
  5. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 8, 2003
    6,710
    So. Cal
    Full Name:
    Armen
    Great Post. Thank you, Very Interesting!!!!
     
  6. Victory

    Victory Formula Junior

    Jan 28, 2004
    410
    I've been serching for those datas for sometime now. You guys are great.
     
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  8. detltu

    detltu Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
    177
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Full Name:
    David Taylor
    definately a cool post I have often wondered myself about how the supercars (288,F40,F50, enzo) stacked up against each other on Fiorano.
    Thanks
     
  9. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    109
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    From Atlas.
    World Champion Michael Schumacher broke, for the second consecutive day, the Fiorano track record as he concluded Ferrari's first test of their new F2004 car.

    The German driver clocked a best lap of 55.999 to lower the track record by almost three tenths of a second following yesterday's time (56.279). It was the first time that Fiorano was lapped in less than 56 seconds.

    Ciao
    Peter
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Social Subscribed Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    51,775
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    I think an average driver will still drive faster in a better performing car, so it's all relative.
     
  11. arakisfilip

    arakisfilip Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2004
    295
    as much as I remember there were changes done to the track when Shumaher came on board, so the times before 98 shouldn't count
     
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  13. ferrari_e_basta

    ferrari_e_basta Karting
    BANNED

    Nov 1, 2003
    154
    nr Nurburgring, GER
    Full Name:
    Helmut Schnug
    Does anyone have some 550GT or 575 GTC lap times to be added to the Fiorano track record list?

    Thanks
     
  14. ETW

    ETW Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    575
    MA
    Wait... So the 360 Modena and the F40 both got the same time?! That doesn't sound right, I thought the F40 would beat it by alot.
     
  15. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Remember, those record times with each car were generally done when the factory was testing the car... when it was a production model. The factory (unfortunately) doesn't re-test the old models to keep the times truly comparable (they, afterall, want the new models to look faster, even if its really just the tires that are).

    Thus, compared to the F40, the 360 has: 1) better tire technology; and 2) a small track change made in 1992.

    Similarly, the racecars are hugely advantaged vs. the street cars simply by the use of slicks vs. street rubber... that alone can be 6 or more seconds of the difference.
     
  16. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,051
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    I'm curious as to how accurate the above list is of all of the cars. Fiorano has changed and been repaved several times, and with the difference in tires, and drivers, using this to determine which car is faster is very specualtive. Unless you could specify what configuration, what time, and what type of driver was driving, these figures can be misleading.

    At the French Quarter Classic, we have a few professional drivers acting as instructors (at least one modern F1 driver attending), and driving and teaching us mortals. Talk about a performance difference! You have absolutely NO IDEA how fast your car is until an F1 driver takes you around the track.

    Eric Van De Poele, (former F1, former Bentley team driver) took turns driving our cars, and it was amazing what a pro can do with your car. Even to us regular club racing drivers, it was like this guy could take your car to the moon.

    Our track in New Orleans is very similar in length and turns to Fiorano. A full on GT2 Porsche race car , with a semi-pro driver set the former closed car track record at a 1:17. My time in a 355 with slicks, 1:35. Eric's time in a stock 360 challenge was a 1:15!!

    In a 333SP, he did a 1:06. (He took passangers too!!) I missed his time in an F40, but he was going insanely fast. Wish I had a timer!

    A F1 caliber driver, on a good lap, on the edge, with a proper set up and tires, can be miles ahead of another car. Its really difficult to judge. To give you an idea Eric VDP set a 1:06 in a 333SP at our event in 2001. In 2003, Anthony Lazzaro, managed only a 1:10 is a similar 333SP. He later did a 1:11 in the Risi Comp. 360GT, wihch won the championship last year.

    Even amoung professionals, alot depends on set up, tires, and how hard the driver is pushing.

    To give you another example, a few years ago a friend of mine bought an F50 and an F50GT1 and tested them back to back (It was reported in Forza several years ago) He hired hot-shoe D. Theyes as an instructor. He drove both cars around Willow Springs, and only clocked 2 seconds a lap faster in the GT1. Does that mean the GT1, with slicks, is only 2 seconds faster, as FORZA reported. No. He wasn't pushing as hard.

    So its very difficult to say.

    In New Olreans this year we are going to have an F1 driver drive some of our cars back to back and do a real test.

    I'm tempted to invite someone with a Gallardo, and let an F1 driver take out the Stradale and Gallardo, and test them back to back, and put an end to this debate once and for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  17. costa

    costa Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    372
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Costantino Bertuzzi
    360 challenge 1,21.00
    333sp with restrictors 1,13.00
    360 gt 1,17.00
    maserati trofeo 1,25.00
    355 1,24.4

     
  18. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Indeed... however, the differences in tires and track are at least understandable... you can mentally adjust. What is really difficult to adjust for is drivers! As you argue very well in the rest of your note...

    How well does the driver know the car? How well does the driver know the track? How hard is the driver pushing? How consistent is the driver? The beauty of the Fiorano track records is that we know in each case, we have a top professional test driver, test drivers needing to be consistent by definition, who knows the Fiorano track better than the back of his own hand, who knows the car better than anyone on the planet, and who (on the record setting lap) was pushing as hard as he could.

    Thus, I find the Fiorano times waayyyyy more interesting, despite the flaws, than any magazine test or track-day measurements. In fact, the only way you could make it better, is to bring the cars together on the same day and put equal rubber on them and have Dario run them each for enough laps to get re-familiarized to the point that he is able to set new track records in each. THEN it would be perfect.

    But in lieu of that, I'd much rather try to adjust for rubber and the track change than to adjust for lesser equivalence in the drivers and the driving.


    That would be interesting... but, to be PERFECT, we need to make sure the pro driver has had time to really learn the track and then really learn each vehicle. With a pro driver, that's not too long... but its more than three laps in each car!! However, even with the pro driver driving each only a few laps and at a bit less than 100% (since its other people's cars), it will still be EXTREMELY interesting.
     
  19. AndersJL

    AndersJL Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2001
    376
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    AL
    Yes, I know this has been discussed several times, but I HAVE searched the archives for following, without sucess:

    612
    430

    and ALL models BEFORE 355....starting with the first opening back in 1971.

    Please, any information would be appeciated,

    Thanks,
    Anders

    This is all I have, and as you see, many are missing:

    0'56"33 F2003-GA (2003, MS)
    0'58"38 F2002 (2002, MS)
    0'59"00 F1 310B (1997, MS)
    1'00"31 F1 412T1 (1994, Alesi)
    1'11"90 Ferrari 333SP (slicks)
    1'18"90 360 N-GT
    1'22"30 Enzo (2003)
    1'22"40 360 Challenge
    1'25"40 355 Challenge (1997?, wing, slicks, Nicola Larini)
    1'26"50 355 Challenge (1995, no wing, streets)
    1'27"00 F50
    1'28"00 F50 (1995)
    1'28"00 360 Challenge Stradale
    1'29"60 F40
    1'30"00 F40 (1987)
    1'30"00 360 Modena
    1'31"50 360 Modena
    1'31"50 F40 (Gerhard Berger)
    1'31"51 575M Maranello
    1'32"53 550 Maranello
    1'33"00 348 Challenge
    1'33"00 F355 F1 (1997)
    1'34"00 F355 (1994)
    1'34"00 550 Maranello (1997)
    1'35"00 F512M (1995)
    1'35"00 512TR (1992)
    1'35"00 456GT
    1'35"00 Maserati 4200GT
    1'36"00 Testarossa (1984)
    1'37"00 348TB (1989)
    1'37"00 288GTO
    1'40"00 456GT (1992)
     
  20. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
    Full Name:
    Jean
    I don't know about the 612 Scaglietti.

    But I know the F430 was 3 secs faster than the 360 Modena and it is 1 sec faster than the 360 CS.
    Now that would be 1.27.00
    Not bad!
     
  21. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
    4,749
    Laval
    Full Name:
    Jean
    Something to take note of...
    Fiorano isn't the same as in the 90s. The length of the track is different I think, so that could have an impact in the laptime numbers.
     
  22. AndersJL

    AndersJL Formula Junior

    Apr 16, 2001
    376
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    AL
    Thanks John,

    So we have added the 430 to the list.
    But do you know when the trac was modified ?
    -And does anyone have lap times before it was modified ?

    /Anders
     
  23. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I figured I'd hold off on merging this thread as long as the discussion avoiding asking questions answered in the original thread...

    And on that note, we don't need two threads discussing the exact same content, so I'll merge them. In addition to the track mods discussed above, also note the discussion on tire compounds and a few other "mitigating" issues.
     
  24. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I don't either... and in fact, don't remember ever seeing it.


    No... the F430 is 3 secs faster than the Modena, true... but the CS is 3.5s faster than the Modena... so the F430 is 0.5s slower than the CS... so that would be

    1'28"50 F430

    Note that the 1'31"50 360 Modena time is the typically quoted one; not sure the details behind the 1'30"00 time that was claimed... possibly on R rubber?

    As for the F430 being slower than the CS on track, note that the CS has better rubber and that the Fiorano track is small... so the lighter car is a huge advantage. I fully expect the F430 to post better times at larger tracks... like Nurburgring.
     
  25. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    109
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    New list.
    Any news BTW

    LAP TIMES PISTA DI FIORANO

    Ferrari F2004 (2004, MS) 0.55.999
    Ferrari F2003-GA (2003, MS) 0.56.33
    Ferrari F2002 0.57.476
    Ferrari F2002 (2002, MS) 0.58.378
    Ferrari F1 310B (1997, MS) 0.59.00
    Ferrari F1 412T1 (1994, Alesi) 1.00.31
    Ferrari 333SP (slicks) 1.11.90
    Maserati Reparto Corse (Andrea Bertolini) 1.12.336
    Ferrari 333SP (slicks & restrictor) 1.13.00
    Ferrari 360 GT 1.17.00
    Ferrari 360 N-GT (2003) 1.18.90
    Ferrari 360 Challenge 1.21.00
    Ferrari Enzo (2003) 1.22.30
    Ferrari 360 Challenge (2003) 1.22.40
    Maserati Trofeo 1.23.848
    Ferrari 355 Challenge 1.24.40
    Maserati Trofeo 1.25.00
    Ferrari Enzo Ferrari 1.25.30
    Ferrari 355 Challenge (1997?, wing, slicks, Larini) 1.25.40
    Ferrari 355 Challenge (1995, no wing, streets) 1.26.50
    Ferrari F50 1.27.00
    Ferrari F50 (1995) 1.28.00
    Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale 1.28.00
    Ferrari F430 1.28.50
    Ferrari F40 1.29.60
    Ferrari F40 (1987) 1.30.00
    Ferrari 360 Modena 1.30.00
    Ferrari 360 Modena 1.31.50
    Ferrari F40 (Gerhard Berger) 1.31.50
    Ferrari 575M Maranello 1.31.512
    Ferrari 550 Maranello 1.32.528
    Ferrari 348 Challenge 1.33.00
    Ferrari 575M Maranello 1.33.00
    Ferrari F355 F1 (1997) 1.33.00
    Ferrari F355 (1994) 1.34.00
    Ferrari 550 Maranello (1997) 1.34.00
    Ferrari F512M (1995) 1.35.00
    Ferrari 512TR (1992) 1.35.00
    Ferrari 456GT 1.35.00
    Maserati 4200GT 1.35.00
    Ferrari 288GTO 1.36.00
    Ferrari Testarossa (1984) 1.36.00
    Ferrari 348TB (1989) 1.37.00
    Ferrari 288GTO 1.37.00
    Ferrari F512M 1.37.00
    Porsche 959 1.37.00
    Ferrari 456GT (1992) 1.40.00
    Ferrari 328 GTB 1.44.00
     
  26. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,112
    The fastest time with the F2005 at Fiorano so far is 57.146 by Schumacher on 17 May.

    Jonathan
     
  27. giamma

    giamma Rookie

    Nov 4, 2003
    20
    Fiorano circuit was slitly changed in 1995 , it is now a bit faster (shorter) it was changed to suit the new F1 chasiss, so any times before 1995 can not be related or compared to the lap times after 95. And also in 2004 the asfalt was redone which also lowered by 1.5 sec the lap time.

    GM
     

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