Mille Miglia 2009

There was already a good few posts mentioning this upcoming event, and reading each and every one of them makes my mind drift, looking down the road from a classic Ferrari cockpit.

Then it clicked.

Why don't the 3 of you mount webcams somewhere in the cars' interiors with an uplink, so that we can all enjoy the happenings? I'm not an IT guy, but I'm sure that it would be technically possible. Would it be allowed?

 

Thanks for starting this thread. Have been as a spectator twice, FANTASTIC!!!!, unfortunately not able to go every year.
Please post pictures of the cars you will participate with.

Grazie mille (miglia)

 

I am planing on entering with my 1955 OSCA mt4-tn.
The application process is long and complex (especialy the FIVA paperwork).

looking fwd

 

Hi Elads,
What´s the s/n of your OSCA?

I´ve done the Mille Miglia twice and I can assure you that bringing all those electronic devices is nonsense.
You only need a Bora watch, built by Luciano Viaro, two times Mille Miglia winner.
And they are not that ugly!
And then concentration!

Regards.
Cris.-

 

With my 1952 Aston Martin DB2 Saloon that is currently finishing a full mechanical restoration.....the application process is quite involved! Hopefully my first time app will be successful although I understand its quite difficult to be admitted....has anyone just gone and "spectated" and if so, how was that....any details/recommendations? BTW my favorite watch is the Chopard MM!

 

Members of the Dutch F-chat section are travelling to Italy that week with 9 Ferraris and 1 Lamborghini. We will definitely attend the event (as spectators) although it hasn't been finalised where and on which day. When we've worked it out we'll post it here. It would be nice to meet up with people we know only through avatars.

@tynelea - we caught the last bit of the caravan going through a town last year. It was great. A lovely party atmosphere and great, great cars. Some of our party took the opportunity to do demonstrate some more modern machinery and do some silly speeds in town as the last cars had passed. The police loved it, so did the crowd. Only in Italy!


Onno

 

I received a very nice email asking me to bring the Maserati back and did arrange for a rather special car and client to attend next year. My wife however is expecting this Spring so I will be sadly missing both the MM and TDF for the first time in many years.

I am happy to assist anyone with logistics and recommendations regarding both the new committee and revised rules etc...

Keep in mind the strict guidelines regarding vehicle eligibility as the new organizers are far more careful about the selection process.

Also although not published anywhere, there are far fewer open spots available than one might think do to sponsor assisted spots as well as those held for the regular veteran and VIP participants.

Obviously if you have not already turned in a full application, you need to do so immediately.

For those accepted and shipping their cars from North, Central and South America, give yourself significant extra shipping time if you are going by ocean in either an exclusive or shared container. There is a heavy backlog at nearly every port and problems and delays are the norm rather than the exception on vehicle / vessel movement.

I usually send a letter to first time entrants that I know. It outlines a lot of interesting and important details... It is a little dated but still quite useful especially the sections on vehicle preparation. I would be happy to send it to anyone interested in going at some point now or in the future.

Warm regards,

Bill Noon

 

In the states they are running a two hour special on the HD channel. It is very well done.

 

It's funny this thread came up. I saw the MM special on TV the other day and became very interested in this. I have been on their website quite a few times since. Sadly, I do not have a car that meets the criteria. I promised myself that I will do this at least once in my lifetime however. Now all I have to do is start looking for an eligible entry. For me, the whole car thing involves late sixties era exotics, but this whole experience is quickly changing my outlook. Rather envious of those who will be participating.

 

s/n: 1169

is there a website for the watch?

 

I will be there too! Enjoying the cars, the race and the fabulous Italian atmosphere.
And I am taking pictures of course!!!

 

Here it is:
http://www.digitechtiming.com/prodotti.php?id_product=1

I am not selling them but I am a Bora user since years.
I´ve also done the Mil Millas Sport in Argentina with Luciano Viaro a couple of times.
With that watch is enough.
Only a push button, and no need to fit cables, etc.
If you don´t like its look in the dashboard you can do like Luciano Viaro who tides it to his right leg with a tie, and that´s it!

Regards.
Cris.-

 

I have spectated a number of times from an Alfa support car..

 

sent you a PM

 

Hi Tony,

Got it... sent you the letter as well... I have had lots of requests... Hope it is of some assistance...

Regarding the Mille Miglia I would like to pass along the following advice.
In addition to this, shortly before you leave for Italy, If you would like, I will forward some
additional notes that might make your adventure less stressful.

After reading this, you might believe that the Mille Miglia is not worth the
aggravation or effort. To that I can only say this; No where in the world,
under any circumstance have I experienced more passion, more adventures, or
more excitement in 48 hours.

So here goes...

1. Nothing in Italy goes according to plan.
2. Rules for local and favored drivers are different for "outsiders".
3. If you do not know who is an outsider than you are one for sure.
4. All rules and regulations outlined in the entry form are strictly
adhered to accept as the officials decide to ignore them or modify them as
they see fit.
5. All modifications, warnings, and schedule changes will occur randomly
without warning.
6. Only local and/or favored entrants will be informed of modifications,
warnings, and schedule changes.
7. Rules outlying the illegal use of time-speed-distance computers GPS and
other Satellite based positioning systems do not apply to local and/or
favored drivers.
9. Refueling locations will be clearly marked on your route books.
Unfortunately these will be stations with only water based fuels unsuitable
for even the mildest of performance automobiles.
10. Your route book will have detailed English translations that have been
rewritten year after year to remove any ambiguous or confusing notations.
Unfortunately despite years of work, the English translations might as well
have been written in Aramaic. They are completely useless and their use
will ensure your failure to even make it to the starting line.

When one thinks of the Mille Miglia, images of Stirling Moss and Dennis
Jenkins hurtling through the Futa Pass come to mind. Some might picture
Nuvolari careening at break neck speeds in his Ferrari while the car
disintegrated around him. Others think back to the four victorious prewar
races of the Scuderia Ferrari.

Begun in 1927 and run nearly every year except during the war until 1957,
the Mille Miglia is considered one of the all time greatest road races.

That was then and this is now!

Today the Mille Miglia is the world’s longest and sometimes slowest moving
car show. It is not a race. If you are going there to race you picked the
wrong event and you are going to be very disappointed.

There are moments where open road speeds will approach 100 mph and depending
upon your vehicle even greater speeds are obtainable. For the most part you
will do the majority of the event at speeds less than 50 mph. If you finish
the event you will find that most drivers average about 32 mph for the
entire event.

Your vehicle will get very hot. Plan on being stuck in bumper to bumper
traffic in some cases for over an hour. In addition to making sure that
your cooling system is in top order, high capacity electric fans are
mandatory on most vehicles. As much of the driving is done at night and in
the rain, your headlights and electrical system will need to be in top
order. Most vehicles eligible for the Mille Miglia have electrical systems
that will keep headlights bright for about fifteen minutes. Add to the
electrical load a cooling fan, fuel pumps, map lights and continuous
starting of the engine and you can see that your beautiful
Lucas/Bosch/Magneti Morelli generator will be smoking in a matter of
minutes. At a minimum install a second high capacity battery in your car.
Make sure both batteries have the highest "cold-cranking" amperage that
money can buy. At 3 AM in the rain, half way to Ferrara, in the dark you
are going to regret cutting any corners.

I strongly suggest removing the original Generator, having it carefully
disassembled, inspected, rebuilt, tested, detailed painted, plated, etc...
Then put the restored, rebuilt original unit in a box and put it on a shelf
in your garage. Make sure to clearly label the box "for use in concours
environments only".

Next go out and buy a Mitsubishi, Toyota or Nissan brand alternator and
voltage regulator. Have your mechanic pick the most common application unit
that will fit in your vehicle with the least amount of modification. This
single act which is completely legal with the F.I.V.A. will eliminate 90
percent of the reasons why most entrants fail to complete the Mille Miglia.

Make sure you are completely comfortable sitting, eating and sleeping in
your vehicle for a minimum of 14 hours. If this is no problem than make
sure you are equally comfortable driving the car non-stop, no breaks for a
minimum of three hours.

In seventy-three years, only once did it not rain during the Mille Miglia.
More than a third of the Mille Miglias were run continuously from start to
finish in total rain. In Italy rain squalls often resemble waterfalls in
sheer power and magnitude. The only way to practice for this is to sit in
your car with it running and have someone spray you with a garden hose.
Soak everything to ensure that water will not enter vital electric
components and the carburetor intakes. The weakest point is usually
distributor caps and voltage regulators. Some WD 40 and commercial Electric
Dry sprays will eliminate most problem areas. Silicone will also help seal
openings.

If you are in a closed car plan on water still seeping in. Bring plenty of
soft cloth rags. and keep them in easy reach. The windows are going to fog
up constantly. Wiper motors fail notoriously. I prefer open cars. You are
going to get wet anyway so you might as well look good while your getting
soaked. Closed cars however are really the only way to go in style and comfort.

In an open car with full windshields you will have it easier than those in
coupes and roadsters/spyders. If you are in a car with small aeroscreens or
minimal windshields, get two sets of goggles; one set should be clear and
the other tinted. When the sun is out it will be hot and it will be in your
face no matter what time of day or which direction you are headed.
Obviously having sun screen with you is a priority.

You are going to be following close behind someone during the entire event.
That person will vary frequently. Be very careful behind skinny-tired,
cycle-fendered, Prewar vehicles. They can easily throw up baseball size
rocks which will ruin anything and anyone they hit. I have a pair of
goggles with a shattered lens from one such incident. If you are in an open
car and it is moving, make sure you have goggles on. Removing them is the
quickest way to ensure getting foreign objects in your eye.

Temperatures will range from insanely cold to insanely hot. Wear layered
clothing. Remove and add clothes to adjust for temperature changes. I
usually start with an outer windbreaker type jacket or leather jacket.
Underneath I wear a sweater then a button up cotton shirt, under that a
simple t-shirt. If you make it to day two you will see many instances when
you will be adding and removing clothes to keep up with the temperature
changes.

Bringing spare parts is a difficult subject. At times I have loaded
hundreds of pounds of spares into my various vehicles. Not once did I ever
use a single spare that I had pre-packed. However on numerous occasions I
have bartered and exchanged on board spares with other entrants to get what
I needed to keep going.

Italy is literally a magic place. One year I completely and utterly
grenaded the engine in my Testa Rossa. The damage was total and
catastrophic. The worst part was that it happened three days before the
rally even started. Then the Italian magic kicked in. In what would take
many pages to describe, my co-driver and I completed a full rebuild in less
than seventy-two hours. We finished the event in style and despite not
sleeping for five days, we even looked pretty good doing it.

The Mille Miglia is sanctioned by the F.I.V.A. I will not say anything bad
about the F.I.V.A. (They have spies everywhere). The F.I.V.A. is hard to
describe. They are a lot like the I.R.S., you know they are there and for the
most part they keep to themselves as long as your paperwork is in order.
Make a mistake on your paperwork and forget it. If they do not approve of
your application and forward your temporary I.D. card then forget it. Also,
do not ever show or even hint that your car has F.I.A. papers. They are a
competing sanctioning body and considered evil by all righteous card
carrying members of the F.I.V.A. (THIS HAS NOW CHANGED AND YOUR

CAR CAN HAVE FIA OR FIVA PAPERS.)

Before you ship your car to Italy you must have the following in order.

Valid state title in the name of the owner.

Valid state registration current and up to date in the name of the owner who
must also be the driver or co-driver or have legal letters stating his use
of the vehicle is done with the owners permission.

Insurance "green-card" for limited liability while driving your car in
Europe.

I also strongly recommend getting a local Italian limited liability policy.
These are cheap (less than $200) and will get you out of most jams with the
local police.

Having additional insurance is up to you. Despite some pretty hefty vehicle
values, most collectors appear to self insure.

I do not have any great advice on insurance except that if you have it you
won’t need it. If you do not have it you are probably going to run into a
circumstance where you should have gotten some.

Make sure when you check in and are going through scrutineering in Brescia
that you have all your original documents and photo copies of everything.
Make sure you have a valid U.S. drivers license or International drivers
license and your passport. Keep original documents and multiple photocopies
of everything in a waterproof pouch.

Bring lots of money. Bring U.S. dollars and get stacks of Euros. You can
never travel in Italy with too much money.

I suggest at least $1,000 in U.S. bills and $2,000 in Eros. Your ATM card
will work everywhere you go. So will your Amex, Visa and Mastercard.

Your car is going to get very dirty. It will also get numerous stone and
rock chips along the front bonnet, lower valence and both rocker panels.

Thousands and thousands of people are going to enthusiastically touch your
car with big smiles and a few tears in their eyes. The Italians are a
hands-on, passionate people. Nothing you say in any language is going to
alter the fact that your car will look like it was covered in Vaseline after
three days of contact with enthusiastic Mille Miglia spectators.

All Italians love cars. All Italians love the Mille Miglia. More than two
million of them are going to watch you go by. Most will want to talk to you
and touch you as you go by. Some will touch you as you go by very fast. It
is their belief that you are there for them and that they are 100 percent
participants in the event. These are simple facts. Accept it now and you
will enjoy the event.

If your car is a "Pebble Beach" Concours winning show car, it won’t be after
the first few minutes of the Mille Miglia.

I cannot emphasize enough the importance of carrying several flashlights.
You can never have too many. I keep a small one attached to the keys. One
in the pocket of my outer clothing and one in the pocket of my inner
clothing. I also keep at least one within reach of the driver and one
within reach of the co-driver. I also keep one in my tool kit and one in my
spares package. The small twin AA battery Mag brand flashlights seem to be
the most durable and I have never had one fail.

The coolest cars to drive on the Mille Miglia are usually the worst ones to
enter. Testa Rossas, D-Type Jags, Tour de France Ferraris, etc... are the
easiest and fastest cars on the event. They are also some of the best
handling and easiest to drive vehicles. The organizers also love having
these big dollar, ground thumpers as the crowds go nuts for them. The
problem is that few ever finish the event. As a general rule of thumb, big
engined, easy to drive, fast, good handling, good braking, late 50s sports
racers run at the very back of the pack. The slowest and generally the
oldest vehicles will have the lowest race numbers and run at the front.

My race number and hence starting positions have ranged from a low of 68 to
a high of 370. Several years ago my car was 370, there were 370 entrants.

It was only my second Mille Miglia and I was completely unaware that this was

paramount to a death sentence.

Under any and all circumstances, you do not want to be running at the back
of the pack. Any number higher than 285, I would recommend any first time
entrant to back out and wait another year. It would be impossible to
describe the difficulties in full detail of what it means to be in this
group of cars. Those few who will complete the event resemble Batan Death
March survivors.

I am often asked which vehicles are the best to run in the Mille Miglia.
With the current set of rules, there is a lot of latitude and everyone has
their own personal preferences.

My experiences have taught me the following when it comes to picking a
vehicle:

1. Getting accepted in the Mille Miglia is very difficult. They take
very few new/first time entrants each year. The Mille Miglia has many loyal
followers. I have several friends who have done it more than ten times.
Therefore it is important to enter a car which will get accepted. A 356
Porsche is both acceptable and a great car for the Mille Miglia.
Unfortunately the organizers have probably four to five hundred apply each
year and they have spots for only about ten of these cars. The same goes
for the Mercedes Benz 300SL Gullwings and Ferrari Boano/Ellena vehicles.
The organizers are looking for vehicles of exceptional character and merit
that in many cases actually ran in the original Mille Miglia. If your
vehicle is a veteran of the original Mille Miglia and you can prove it, you
are usually guaranteed a spot.

2. Open cars appear not to be favored by the organizers, however a good
percentage of entrants prefer closed cars due to the guarantee of rain.

3. Prewar cars also appear to be favored by the organizers. In general
there is about a 50/50 mix of pre and post war entrants.

4. Excellent examples of prewar vehicles to run the Mille Miglia in are
the BMW 328, Bugatti Type 37, 35, 35A, 35B and 35C variants.
Both 1.5 and 2 liter Astons and nearly all prewar Alfas especially 1750, 2300 and 2900
Supercharged Models being heavily favored. All of these vehicles are nearly
always going to be accepted and each if properly prepared will provide an
excellent ride to driver and co-driver. With all of these vehicles you are
going to have race/position numbers ranging from 50 to 175 or so. These are
excellent positions to run in the Mille Miglia.

5. Excellent examples of post-war vehicles to run in the Mille Miglia are
the Lancia family of B-20 and B-24 vehicles. All variants of Siata, both
four and eight cylinder models. Cisitalia 202 and 204s. Alfa Romeo's family
of 6c2500 and especially the SS custom coach work models are an easy entry.
Porsche 550s, Cunningham C3s and Alfa 1900s are also excellent choices. Nearly all models
of the O.S.C.A family and small displacement Ferrari and Maserati four
cylinder Sports Racers are also excellent candidates. All of these vehicles
are nearly always going to be accepted and each if properly prepared will
provide an excellent ride to driver and co-driver. With all of these
vehicles you are going to have race/position numbers ranging from 150 to 300
or so. As previously noted the lower your race number the better you will
enjoy/survive the event.


6. I am going to take a lot of flak for this however I feel it necessary
to list a few vehicles that I would highly recommend not running the Mille
Miglia in. This list of cars does not mean that they are bad vehicles,
just difficult or unsuitable to use in the Mille Miglia Historic Rally.
Trust me on this one, I have and many friends have tried in the past to run
some of these vehicles, always with disastrous results:

Ferrari 290MM
Ferrari 340MM
Ferrari 375MM
Ferrari 375MM+
Ferrari 857 Sport
Ferrari 860 Monza
Ferrari 250 Testa Rossa
Ferrari 315/335 Sport
Ferrari 121LM

Maserati 350S
Maserati 450S

Jaguar C-Type
Jaguar D-Type
Jaguar XK-SS

While these are some of the most awesome and highly coveted vehicles in the
world, they are going to present driver and co-driver with many
difficulties. All are guaranteed entries but will have race numbers ranging
from 275 on up to the end. There are very few places were the incredible
braking, handling and power of these vehicles will be able to be used. None
of these vehicles without serious cooling system work will be able to work
their way through the Mille Miglias notorious traffic jams without
overheating.

Were the Mille Miglia still run as a race, all of these vehicle would be
stars and at the top of my list to run myself. Unfortunately they are
handicapped by the rules of the MM historic rally.

I have a lot of friends who tell me they do not care about the rules and
want to just drive the MM in the car they want and will just follow along
the route as if it were a tour. The MM’s organizers not only frown on this,
if they catch you doing it, you will be asked to either get back in order or
go home.

Following in order loosely means that you will never be more than 25 race
numbers ahead or behind than where you should be. Another rule is that you
are never allowed to pass or be passed by the position control cars. While
this sounds very regimented, it is not as bad as it sounds. Basically if
you race number is 200 you do not want to be driving with other entrants
whose race numbers are higher than 225 or lower than 175.

You must carry all your own, tools, luggage, spare parts etc... unless you
have a support vehicle. Besides adding an additional expense, support
vehicles have a very difficult time keeping up and finding their team cars.

Because the Mille Miglia is over in 48 hours, there is little to no
opportunity for a support team to effect major repairs.. A general rule of
thumb during the event if you have a mechanical problem that cannot be fixed
by driver and co-driver within two hours you are probably better off finding
a nice hotel and calling it quits. Do not be afraid to ask for assistance
from spectators. Once again Italian magic has produced some of the most
miraculous cures for vehicles suffering what should have been catastrophic
failures.

Several years ago, in a Ferrari 166 we bottomed out and put a 3 inch hole in
our gas tank. Without removing the tank there should have been no way to
have it properly repaired. An elderly gentleman who witnessed our mishap
went to his house and upon his return he handed us what looked like a tube
of toothpaste. Using a cut soda can flattened out, the gentleman plastered
the stuff in the tube over the cut can and then pressed it over the hole in
the tank. We were on our way within ten minutes and finished that Mille
Miglia better than any run before or since.

If you do have a support crew, make sure they as well as you have a good
Italian road map that identifies all auto stradas as well as secondary
roads. With a support crew at least your luggage problems should be solved.

If you do not have a support crew, make sure you practice loading your car
long before you leave for Italy. Make sure you and your co-driver wear
everything your going to wear during the event and have all bags fitted to
the car. Even the most cramped sports racers have lots of hidden spaces
where luggage can be fitted. Stick with several small soft waterproof bags.
In my Testa Rossa, we were able to put on small bag over the gas tank, one
under the co-driver’s feet and one next to each door.. A similar packing
scheme can be used on most other Ferrari/Maserati/O.S.C.A. Sports Racers.
The same goes for the D-Type Jags and Lancia D-24s.

Obviously if you are running a GT car, such as a Gullwing or Lancia B20/24
you are going to have a far easier time packing your car. Prewar cars have
loads of room. I spent a month in Italy with my 1750 Alfa and in addition
to the internal storage space offered by the car we strapped several of our
soft bags on the car’s running boards with great effect.

Obviously there is much planning involved and depending on who you ask you
are going to get some conflicting advise.

While it seems like a lot of hassle for 48 hours of punishment, every
red-blooded car enthusiasts needs to do the Mille Miglia at least once. For
many of us the yearly pilgrimage to Brescia cannot be denied.

I am therefore extremely happy for you and your lucky co-driver on what I am
sure is going to be a very exciting and passionate trip into the unknown.

Warm regards,

Bill Noon

Symbolic Motor Car Company
7440 La Jolla Blvd.
La Jolla CA 92037

http://www.symbolicmotors.com

Ph (858) 454-1800
fax (858) 454-1890

 

Julio, Bill and everybody else interested in the MM 2009,

Great thread, great story Bill!

The cooling problem is everywhere. And I will definitely add an other battery. I also heard a very interesting solution (while removing a generator on a 212 is not easy, while attached directly to the engine) to add a spare one on your main drive shaft (under your car). This is a very intersting idea (though on a vulnarable location under the car......Any suggestions in this?

The FIVA papers are hard to get AND MUST BE on the owners name. So older pasports are useless! Dont even try to subscribe (unless you are famous/Italian/sponsor...) You need at least an A3 car (or better......) And I was told that in some cases the suffix X was given by the FIVA people but they are not allowed.

Well, I wish everybody good luck (and I hope that within this crises it is still "done" to do a rally like this......

I have subscribed with my 212 Export Vignale Coupe.....Hope this is a good car Bill.....(well it is closed, but never drove it in the rain)

ciao
Oscar
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Bill, what a hoot! And 99.99% pure! I'm just happy to have done it once in my life, as everyone should. God loves you!

 

PS I am glad this thread will get more attention than the falling-prices-and-endless-discussions-about-who-is-right-thread...(on which I contributed endless nevertheless, before receiving complaints....) Fenzoman will not show up here

Oscar.

 

Ciao Oscar,

Love the 212... Probably going to get you a very sweet mid-field starting number.

I would skip the generator on the drive-shaft if it were me. Works great on a ship, not so cool the vibrating mass / low ground clearance etc... situation on a Ferrari drive-shaft.

The letter is rather old and there are no specialists all over the place who can hack out the asbestos wiring crud inside an original generator and rebuild it as a high-output alternator with internal voltage regulator. No one can tell the difference except by how crystal clear and bright your lights are.

Ed, many thanks for the kind comments... but besides being a fireman, when I grow up.... I want to be you!

Chees,

Bill

 

Bill

Very nice advice! Thanks for posting it!

Best

 

I'd like to volunteer my services for this.

Or driving a support team vechicle, maybe a 456 Estate or a 612...