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Mondial electrical system thread

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by snj5, Dec 29, 2005.

  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
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    Russ Turner
    #1 snj5, Dec 29, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    To help searches and other stuff, I am starting this thread as a clearing house on the Mondial electrical system; not to take away from the already great threads out there, but just a 'cafe' kinda deal that we canl post stuff in from time-to -time and will be easy to search.

    The first topic is burn-outs at the fuse box connectors - one recurring place I have noted is atr the fuel pump relay circuit where the outflow goes to the pump. I found out about this specifically courtesy Malcolm at Ferrari-UK who sent me a wiring diagram of the 3.2 fuse box, but I imagine the others may share this problem.

    There is an FChat joint project to build a better fusebox on as we speak, and we're all watching closely!!!

    My experience was that the FI fuel pump would draw a large current at start and would burn out at the white vertical connector at the front of the car, and no gas and no start, even with an intact fuse. Using a schematic, this relay could be bypassed with the system on a separate relay outside the fuse box, bypassing the POS original connector - much as what folks are doing for slow windows. You could run the power directly from the relay via a hefy wire and splice directly into the feedline, preventing the burnout and increasing reliability.
    Simalarly when I went to a low pressure pump for carbs, I also wired around this relay as I did away with the FI microswitch feeding the relay. With the lower amp draw of the low pressure pump, have not had recurring problem.

    Again, thanks to Malcolm at Ferrari-UK - they are the best.
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  3. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    OBTW -
    Anyone ever upgraded the alternator/regukator to something more powerful?
    tnx
    rt
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    #3 No Doubt, Dec 30, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. Dino 208gt4

    Dino 208gt4 F1 World Champ

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    This is gonna be a long and interesting tread...............:)
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
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    Russ Turner
    good post about the stabilant - 22

    And another thing I have found: sometimes when I use black momentary-contact central console switches (most notoriously the glovebox, but also the window and antenna) nothing happens until I've pressed it several times, or nothing at all ever happens; I've ended up replacing these switches twice thinking the switch went bad: $$$$$$$$$

    Well, on a whim once after another switch failure, I disconnected the battery and sprayed Radio Shack electrical contact cleaner down into the switch from the top, cycled the switch about 25 - 30 times, let dry for a couple of hours, then reconnected the battery and the switch worked fine.

    So I guess what is happening is the contact surfaces are prone to build up a thin layer of something and do not make good contact, and the contact cleaner cleans them off. Sure beats paying over $100 per switch.

    Hope this helps
     
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  8. Dino 208gt4

    Dino 208gt4 F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2003
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    That's a good one.
    My center console switches are working very bad too.
    Nice little job for wintertime.
    Thanks Russ!!
     
  9. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

    Aug 1, 2002
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    1000000% agree!!!!!!!!

    I also recommend threadlock on EVERYTHING!
     
  10. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
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    Russ Turner
    And another thing...

    This occaisionally comes up, but a failing battery can make the whole car run like poop or have weird electrical gremlins. For some reason, it is always neccesary to have a battery in top notch shape. I had symptoms thinking I needed a new voltage regulator or a generator, but it was a bad battery.

    As an example, the guys in a shop recently left the car doors open for days, eventually draining down the battery where it would not even open the hood. After recieving a jump start, the car ran fine, charging light went out, but the instrument and headlights all flickered irregardless of engine speed as the regulator generator was having a challenge to run everything with the drain of the flat battery. After charging up the battery, everything works fine.

    So I guess what I am saying is, in addition to always checking the fuses if something is not working and always check the battery and ensure it is up to par.

    That is why I asked previously if anyone has uprated their altenator capacity - I know the early 348s had altenator problems as well.

    best to all
     
  11. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
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    Steve W.
    Absolutely agree about the failing battery. Had that exact problem when I got my Mondial. I thought it had a bunch of problems including a bad starter. Turned out to be a weak battery. Replaced the battery, most of the problems went away.

    And, when I changed the battery I discovered another major electrical problem -- bad battery switch and grounding strap. That stupid battery switch that was original equipment is a POS. And the grounding strap from that to the chassis will corrode over time, as mine did. I removed the switch and strap, and ran a new ground cable direct to the chassis (also cleaned the contact point on the chassis to assure good contact).

    Lots of electrical problems are due to bad ground. When sorting the problems, as important as the fuse box, etc. may be, make sure you've got good grounding where it counts.
     
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  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    And another thing while I am wasting time this am...

    The metal encased Bosch relays at the fusebox should be treated as a finite service life item and routinely replaced ahead of failure. It seems as our cars age, the construction of the original relay and fusebox allows moisture and trollage to come into the relay. To illustrate the point, the inside of your relay can be estimated by the condition of metal on the outside with the surface deterioration. And in DC circuits, it does not take much surface change to effect connectivity (see switch post previous).

    A classic example of these relays going poopy are weird headlight motor malfunctions. After a hard rain one day, my work colleagues gave my car the nickname "Winky". Moisture in the air had seeped into the relay causing it to act weird.

    Not to fear, inexpensive replacements are available at the local NAPA store if you are stateside, or at a Bosch service center if you are not. The GREAT thing about the new replacement relays I have noticed, is that although they are made in China, they are all plastic on the outside and more sealed from the elements as compared to the Bosch which are not.

    As with any Bosch part on your car, don't go in asking for a headlight relay for your FERRARI. Ask for the BOSCH PART NUMBER as printed in your owners manual or cleverly hidden printed on the front of the old relay. The parts guy will look up and get the part, assume it's from a volkswagen and charge you $6 - $8 or so.

    So I am recommending that anyone with a Mondial over 10 years old look at progressively going through and pre-emptively replacing their relays with the new ones, especially the ones controlling vital functions as the headlights. It's inexpensive good insurance.

    best
    rt
     
  14. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    338
    Misipi
    Great idea for a thread, Russ, and great input from everyone else! I sure like the idea of a one-stop source for electrical information on these cars....

    I haven't had any electrical problems (so far), but I surely like the idea of addressing problems before they occur. Accordingly, and as a starting point:

    (1) Do any of you happen to have part numbers (and the number of respective relays) for the relays you would recommend replacing as a prophylactic measure?

    (2) Who is working on, and what is the time table for, the Mondial fuse box replacements? Based on numerous earlier threads, I'm DEFINITELY interested in this upgrade!

    Thanks again for everyone's valuable input......

    Regards,

    David
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    You mean like on gear box drain plugs?! DOH!
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a great tech tip. You can *definitely* see surface deterioration/corrosion on the outer metal relay cases.
     
  17. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    As most know, the Mondial has had a reputation of having weird electrical things. And, as has been documented, often time the weird behaviors start mysteriously, and then are mysteriously cured by a new battery or fresh charge, even with a working charge system.
    Here is the history of Mondial alternators and batteries:

    M8: Bosch 65A alternator and 66Ah battery
    QV: Bosch 80A alternator and 66 Ah battery
    3.2: Bosch 85A alternator and 66 Ah battery
    t: Delco 105A alternator and 66-70 Ah battery (same as 348)

    reference example:
    Porsche
    911 3.2: 92A alternator and 66Ah battery
    911 3.4: 115A alternator and 72 Ah battery
    So, what I think may be happening is a circuit load/battery/alternator mismatch. The electrical load is NOT that different between Mondials, and notice they kept going up every year while the real 'requirement' was about the same; Also, the drive train was engineered for the 2 seat 308/328 as well, with a bit lessor load potential Especially if a more powerful battery and/or stereo amplifier is installed, it may accentuate the condition.

    Ergo, I think a basic solution to some of the Mondials weird electrical behavior may be solved by going to a bigger alternator and/or battery to better meet load requirements.

    So, anyone have advice or a suggested a higher output replacement alternator and how to wire it up? I know the alternator is easy to get to through the starboard rear wheelwell.

    Will cross post just this once to the tech section for the experience over there.

    Many thanks, and happy new year to all!
    rt
     
  18. Vito

    Vito Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
    381
    Dutchess County, NY
    (1) Do any of you happen to have part numbers (and the number of respective relays) for the relays you would recommend replacing as a prophylactic measure?

    David

    The following is from my Mondial 8 wiring diagram manual -
    Relays
    b - Relay for windshiled wiper (marelli Tel. 12C/1)
    c - Relay for RH head lamp lifint motor
    d - Relay for electro-fan of AC condnesor (BOSCH 0332014113)
    e - Relay for high/low wiper speed (BOSCH 0332204101)
    f - Relay for high beam headlamps (BOSCH 0332015006)
    g - Rleay for lights and fog lights
    h - Relay for window motors (BOSCH 0332014113)
    i - Fuel injection delivery pump starting relay
    l - Relay for high/low wiper (BOSCH 0332204101)
    m - Relay for head-lamps lifitn gmotor (BOSCH 0332204101)
    n - Relay for LH head lamps lifting motor (BOSCH 0332204101)
    o - Relay for electro fan of water radiator
    p -
    q - Relay for low beams (BOSCH 0332015006)
    r - Relay for flashing (BOSCH 0332104101)
    s - Relay for Air Conditioning operation
    t - Relay for fuel pump (BOSCH 0332014113)

    Some of the information is lacking through the translation.
     
  19. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2006
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    Pete.G By The Sea
    Superb Thread, Thats whats great about this site,

    My problem is the left headlamp goes up but doesn't go down, I presumed it wasn't the relay as it wouldn't go up as well??, any help would be appreciated
     
  20. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    This is a recurring Mondial topic (see below) and reference the good info in the other thread on the well known connector overload problem:
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102133

    We have pictures of the burnout - see post #1. Personally, I do endorse wiring around this POS plastic connector (the vertically oriented one closest to the inside) as this happened to me and it is a common fault.
     
  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
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    Russ Turner
    Actually a faulty relay could do this. Try replacing the relay and ensuring you get one of the plastic bodied replacements as the metal covered originals (all of them) have a finite life seemingly.

    I am replacing all of my original relays, but the relays that I would consider crucial to replace include prior to failure:
    all headlight and exterior lighting relays, especially headlight lifting motor.
    Wire around the fuel pump relay to an external relay
    Wiper motor
    Water radiator fan

    best
    rt
     
  22. MondiAl87

    MondiAl87 Karting

    Oct 10, 2005
    69
    Sacramento Area
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    Al D.
    yes, i upgraded my battery to a not as wide (so I could use the built-in carry handle and lift it through the top and not have to go through the wheel well.) The posts are also in the middle and unobstructed. It is taller by some 1+ inch or so with very little room to spare. The battery clamp still holds it down.
     
  23. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2006
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    Pete.G By The Sea

    Thanks Russ, I will post how I get on, Regards Pete
     
  24. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    cool!
    brand and designation?
     
  25. MondiAl87

    MondiAl87 Karting

    Oct 10, 2005
    69
    Sacramento Area
    Full Name:
    Al D.
    Anybody have a fix for the balky gas flap, as well as, the glove box opener? I swapped with other working console switches to check the problem and got no change with either. The glove box and gas flap will open once in a blue (mondi) moon.

    thanx.

    P.S.
    I'll post the upgraded battery specs that Russ asked about, shortly.
     
  26. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    Russ Turner
    I think I said in an earlier post in this thread that these console switch problems are fairly common. I certainly spent some big $$ for replacement switches early on. Here's the post from last December:

     
  27. DougS026

    DougS026 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2005
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    Doug S
    Great thread, how about making this a sticky?
     
  28. Javelin276

    Javelin276 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2005
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    Thor Zollinger

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