Discovered this one the hard way while taking my wife out for her birthday. Car remains on tricke-charge at all times and electrical issues have vanished. I did replace the Delco alternator with a Nippon and also killed the heat soak problem with a new ignition. No electrical problems since (8 months)
Symptom: Intermittent starting. Car will start and run fine but it will intermittently stop running or not start at all (the starter motor turns the motor over however.) When this occurs the power lift windows and sunroof many not work. Possible causes: (some portions edited from allanb888 post) If the problem is electrical it is usually the connector in the fuse box, the relay, the fuse, or the fuse box circuit board. Background: Mondials have a common problem with the connector, fuse holder and circuit board in the fuse box. The fuel pump draws a high current, which the standard components in the circuit barely handle when new. With time, resistance increases until not enough current is available to run the fuel pump. Note - the other connectors plugging into the fusebox don't seem to have the same problem, it is assumed that they involve lower current transmission. Hints: 1) Test by jiggling the connector (C99 on a Mondi8) or fuse holder (# 27 on a Mondi8) next time the problem occurs, to see if it starts again. Also try tapping the fuse pump relay. On many cars, the connector (C99 on a Mondi8) shows black burn marks due to the heat produced by the high resistance. 2) Buy a replacement relay first then take the cover off the original metal relay for the fuel pump. You can easily see if the relay is turning on. If not, manually engage the relay and listen for the fuel pump. The car should start with the relay manually engaged. Suggestions depending on problem: 1) Replace the fuse or relay, and clean the connector 2) Wire a connector bypass if the connector is burnt (recommend to do this anyway) 3) Install a new fuel pump relay in the engine compartment to bypass the original (instructions, pictures and diagrams posted elsewhere on this site) 4) If the fuse holder is bad, remove the entire fuse block (about 5 to 10 mins), and re-solder the fuse holder. You may want to add a few jumpers to bypass or reinforce the circuit board (this is what fixed my problem) 5) Many individuals on this board suggest replacing all the metal relays with the newer plastic ones as a preventative maintenance measure. CAUTION: While diagnosing my problem above it was discovered that the wiring diagram (page 2 of the 1982 Mondial 8 Wiring Diagrams) for the fuel pump relay is incorrect. The fuel pump relay is wired differently from what is shown. Electrically it doesn’t make a difference but it can drive you mad when trying to trace out the circuits. Reverse pins 87 and 30 as well as pins 85 and 86 on the diagrams for accuracy.
Does anyone know what happened to any of several people that claimed to be working on a replacement fuse panel for Mondials? Zertec was one along with Royhanks and I think FasterIsBetter. At the end of January FasterIsBetter claimed to be close to having one to sell and about that same time Zertec said he had one along with some basic pricing but had to wait until after the Chinese New Year to get thing finalized. I know I am not the only one who would love to have a new fuse panel. COME ON GUYS, LET US KNOW SOMETHING!! PLEASE
I've just had a voice mail from Clive (Zertec) "Hi it's Clive, I'm in Burma, phone doesnt work, no internet, no nothing, thought I'd give you a call to let you know I havent dropped off the face of the earth" he'll be back in Singapore hopefully sometime in the next week
Here is another great thread on the notorious Mondial Fuel Pump relay: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=102133
Well I finally got around to actually replacing the burned out connector and relay. Super easy and low cost fix. (see my previous post for the cost of parts from Rutlands). I just inserted a long very thin allen wrench down the side of the front of the connector to push down the reatining barb, released each female pin, added solder to the crimp connection as an extra measure, pushed up the barb on the side of the female clip and re-inserted it into the new connector. I did one pin at a time to avoid any mistakes in getting the order correct. When I got to the culprit, the fuel pump pin (it had already been altered with a single heavy wire to a 30amp blade fuse and the two original wires on the other end), I replaced the non-OEM female connector with the correct one and cleaned it up by adding some shrink tubing at the exposed areas of the connectors. Before I re-connected the 10-pin, I also replaced the correct 30 amp relay and marked it "R" according to the alphabetical listing in the owners manual (the previous owner's mechanic used masking tape and numbered each of the relays--made no sense to me). I also went ahead a replaced the 15 amp fuel pump starting relay "S". On my next trip to the local auto parts store, I'm going to get the plastic cased Bosh relays for the whole fuse panel and just keep the OEM ones as emergency spares. At $5 each a no-brainer. If after you do this replacement you find that something doesn't work, check to make sure that when you re-inserted the connector you didn't do it at an angle and bend one of the female pins open (I plead guilty). I just pinched the ends and made sure to insert the connector straight in. Works like a champ. Total labor: 30 min. 1 hour if your watching music videos!
Actually I don't work on the rigs. I work for a law firm and I like to describe my job as dealing with "things that go bump in the night." As a consequence, however, I often disappear at a moments notice, sometimes without any communications and often without Internet access. I am back in Singapore today and will be back with the car stuff ASAP. The latest problem that I am helping a client with includes rather a lot of frozen squid and this: Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here is a thread addressing an inherent amperage drain on the Mondial electrical system, which may be responsible for low/dead batteries or weird electrical occurances for no apparant reason. If you are havng weird electrical fluctuations - check this thread out: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=135970088#post135970088
Over the last few months, I've had some intermittent starting problems with my 3.2 Cab. The starter turns the engine over fine, but no fire. After reading many threads on the fuse box topic, I discovered I could tap on the fuse box, and it would fire up. Well, I decided to solve that problem and change out all of my relays. I did that, and everything worked fine.....until this weekend. When attempting to leave a Ferrari outing - of all places - the car did the same thing. After repeated tapping and banging on the fuse box, it cranked up. OK, I don't plan to go anywhere in it again until I'm pretty satisfied I've got it fixed (I've found that wives aren't very understanding of these types of things when they're ready to go home - luckily, she wasn't with me last night).....Accordingly, ANY new news on when we might expect to see a new fuse box being ready for these cars? Also, any thoughts/comments from anyone on what else I might try in the meantime?
My 328 did the exact same thing. I pulled the fuel pump safety switch plug off the fuel distributor and noticed that the pump did not run sometimes when I turned the key. Tapping on the fuel pump relay would temporarily solve the problem, but it continued to get worse. The problem turned out to be in the wiring harness conector where it plugged into the fuse box. The circuit had gotten hot and made the connection loose. It had discolored the white connector housing, but nowhere near like the first picture in the thread. The connector was right next to the relay, so I guess tapping on the relay jiggled the connector enough for it to make contact. I bent the connector back into place and wedged a couple of pieces of nylon zip-tie material between the connector and the housing to ensure a good contact with the fuse box pin. Haven't had any trouble since.
would agree the problem may well be at the white plastic connector on the inside wall of the fusebox - would remove, inspect and solidly re-seat. good luck. The failure modes of this conector are well documented in this thread with exactly your symptoms.
Hi, have been reading the posts made in this topic thread. Have thoroughly enjoyed them. Thought that I would write about what has happened on the electrical side of my lean mean green machine.... Well, I had the original fuse box (the one with the two slot in modules for the ceramic fuses). Obviously designed by aliens, this was a never ending source of problems. Had much work done on it including various bypass circuits etc. Had initially balked at the AUD $2000 + figure for one of the redesigned fuse boxes (which came out on the 3.2). I had an option to buy one back in 2001/2 but didn't proceed. Oh how I wish that I had! The numerous problems including cooling fan cutting out and engine overheating followed by water pump carking it, hoses splitting under extreme heat and pressure conditions, air conditioning system dying due to intermittant problems of power / no power to the fuel pump not getting a connection! You name it, I had it with my car. Possibly aggravated by my insistence on using it on a daily basis....A beautiful car not being used is like a beautiful woman dying an old maid..... Well, I searched high and low for a replacement fuseboard. Took around 1.5 years, but I finally found one. Oh the absolute joy! The car runs perfectly now.... I would thoroughly recommend all owners to obtain the redesigned fuse board. The swap out is 1/2 hours worth of work. There is a cost, but it is worth it. I would also strongly recommend that the relays for the radiator fans be removed and housed off of the main board. Also, a must is to put a relay near to the fuel pump (i.e. well away from the board). The Fuel pump and the ignition switch appear to be on the same circuit with the fuel pump sucking up a lot of current. This causes the damn thing to run extremely hot. Rerouting the relay alleviates this problem and actually serves to pseudo separate the circuit. Whilst not directly related to the crappy original fuse box design, indirectly is the tendancy for the engine to run hot in traffic. I don't know about the US delivered models, but the Austrlalian delivered cars only had a single fan for the radiator. There are fan kits available to be purchased. I would STRONGLY recommend that all owners find one and have it installed. Since the second fan (and fuse box), I have not had the temperature rise above the mid point of the meter. On the whole hot thing, have also switched coolant to the new bio coolant. This rather awful orange coloured mixture seems to have had a positive effect from the pukey green one that used to be de rigeur. On a final note, have used NOS along with BP Ultimate articially boosting the octane level to 105%. Man, the engine produces so much more....all this without running any hotter..... Ciao for now
I had one of these permanently mounted, just above the battery, in my Mondial 8 http://www.batterychargers.com/details.cfm?prodid=SE%2D1%2D12S&catid=18 Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here is a thread dealing with the relay and electrics for my 3.2's a/c not working. I have yet to perform the fix but hope it helps others. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=103924
Has anyone come up with a suitable electronic replacement for our relays? I know in the applications I've used them (for instance, on the flasher/turn signal circuits of some American cars I've owned), the electronic versions have worked FAR better than their older mechanical equivalents. I just replaced all of my Mondial fuse box relays with new Bosch units, but if the ongoing fuse box replacement project becomes a fuse box replacement product, I would like to switch all of my new mechanical relays for new electronic models........If an electronic replacement has not been found, please advise, and I'll take on that project. Thanks.
Very very late to the game... Is this the connector in question? Are they even worth replacing if I can offer them at the $10/ea price point? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Looks like the connector to me.....anyone else think the same? Also, do you have the metal connectors that provide the electrical connection within this plastic housing? If so, what's the "kit" price?
I agree, I think that the infamous inboard vertical fusebox connector with the evil fuel pump power feed. If you have the little clip doofers that go inside as well as a kit, this would be a VERY useful thing for any Mondial over 10 years old.
For future reference: Mondial fusebox rebuild with new circuit card upgrade thread: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122356
You know, as I sit here and think about replacing this, since Ricambi has the pins and connector body - if we could find a more robust type of pin clamp to replace the fragile ones that are stock, al least for the fuel pump pin, we would eliminate the possibility of recurrent burn out. Will look at some other types of clamps that may fit in Daniel's connector. Daniel - you will be hearing from me shortly. A photo for those who have not seen it: Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was about to order a "kit" from Daniel, but I may hold off for a few days in case you're able to come up with a more reliable connection in the weak fuel pump connection...........Russ, thanks for all of the time you've put into this whole Mondial fuse box / connector project. I know very little about automotive electrics, so I, and many others here, will benefit from the research you've done on this weakness in our cars. After you've talked with Daniel about the possible upgrade of his connector, we look forward to learn of your findings. Thanks again.