Mondial electrical system thread | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Mondial electrical system thread

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by snj5, Dec 29, 2005.

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  1. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2005
    9,973
    Montclair Village
    Full Name:
    B. Ricks
    Discovered this one the hard way while taking my wife out for her birthday. Car remains on tricke-charge at all times and electrical issues have vanished.

    I did replace the Delco alternator with a Nippon and also killed the heat soak problem with a new ignition. No electrical problems since (8 months)
     
  2. DougS026

    DougS026 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2005
    325
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Doug S
    Symptom:
    Intermittent starting. Car will start and run fine but it will intermittently stop running or not start at all (the starter motor turns the motor over however.) When this occurs the power lift windows and sunroof many not work.

    Possible causes:
    (some portions edited from allanb888 post)
    If the problem is electrical it is usually the connector in the fuse box, the relay, the fuse, or the fuse box circuit board.

    Background:
    Mondials have a common problem with the connector, fuse holder and circuit board in the fuse box. The fuel pump draws a high current, which the standard components in the circuit barely handle when new. With time, resistance increases until not enough current is available to run the fuel pump.

    Note - the other connectors plugging into the fusebox don't seem to have the same problem, it is assumed that they involve lower current transmission.

    Hints:
    1) Test by jiggling the connector (C99 on a Mondi8) or fuse holder (# 27 on a Mondi8) next time the problem occurs, to see if it starts again. Also try tapping the fuse pump relay. On many cars, the connector (C99 on a Mondi8) shows black burn marks due to the heat produced by the high resistance.

    2) Buy a replacement relay first then take the cover off the original metal relay for the fuel pump. You can easily see if the relay is turning on. If not, manually engage the relay and listen for the fuel pump. The car should start with the relay manually engaged.

    Suggestions depending on problem:
    1) Replace the fuse or relay, and clean the connector
    2) Wire a connector bypass if the connector is burnt (recommend to do this anyway)
    3) Install a new fuel pump relay in the engine compartment to bypass the original (instructions, pictures and diagrams posted elsewhere on this site)
    4) If the fuse holder is bad, remove the entire fuse block (about 5 to 10 mins), and re-solder the fuse holder. You may want to add a few jumpers to bypass or reinforce the circuit board (this is what fixed my problem)
    5) Many individuals on this board suggest replacing all the metal relays with the newer plastic ones as a preventative maintenance measure.

    CAUTION:
    While diagnosing my problem above it was discovered that the wiring diagram (page 2 of the 1982 Mondial 8 Wiring Diagrams) for the fuel pump relay is incorrect. The fuel pump relay is wired differently from what is shown. Electrically it doesn’t make a difference but it can drive you mad when trying to trace out the circuits. Reverse pins 87 and 30 as well as pins 85 and 86 on the diagrams for accuracy.
     
  3. NC Mondial

    NC Mondial Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 6, 2004
    335
    Raleigh, NC
    Full Name:
    Paul Stahl
    Does anyone know what happened to any of several people that claimed to be working on a replacement fuse panel for Mondials?

    Zertec was one along with Royhanks and I think FasterIsBetter.

    At the end of January FasterIsBetter claimed to be close to having one to sell and about that same time Zertec said he had one along with some basic pricing but had to wait until after the Chinese New Year to get thing finalized.

    I know I am not the only one who would love to have a new fuse panel.

    COME ON GUYS, LET US KNOW SOMETHING!! PLEASE
     
  4. racespecferrari

    racespecferrari F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2006
    7,583
    Suffolk, Uk
    Full Name:
    Pete.G By The Sea

    I think Zertec works on the Rigs or similar and can be away from his Pc for weeks at a time
     
  5. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Sep 10, 2002
    4,667
    Chester, England
    Full Name:
    AndrewG
    I've just had a voice mail from Clive (Zertec)

    "Hi it's Clive, I'm in Burma, phone doesnt work, no internet, no nothing, thought I'd give you a call to let you know I haven’t dropped off the face of the earth"

    he'll be back in Singapore hopefully sometime in the next week
     
  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
  7. MondiAl87

    MondiAl87 Karting

    Oct 10, 2005
    69
    Sacramento Area
    Full Name:
    Al D.
    Well I finally got around to actually replacing the burned out connector and relay. Super easy and low cost fix. (see my previous post for the cost of parts from Rutlands). I just inserted a long very thin allen wrench down the side of the front of the connector to push down the reatining barb, released each female pin, added solder to the crimp connection as an extra measure, pushed up the barb on the side of the female clip and re-inserted it into the new connector. I did one pin at a time to avoid any mistakes in getting the order correct. When I got to the culprit, the fuel pump pin (it had already been altered with a single heavy wire to a 30amp blade fuse and the two original wires on the other end), I replaced the non-OEM female connector with the correct one and cleaned it up by adding some shrink tubing at the exposed areas of the connectors. Before I re-connected the 10-pin, I also replaced the correct 30 amp relay and marked it "R" according to the alphabetical listing in the owners manual (the previous owner's mechanic used masking tape and numbered each of the relays--made no sense to me). I also went ahead a replaced the 15 amp fuel pump starting relay "S".

    On my next trip to the local auto parts store, I'm going to get the plastic cased Bosh relays for the whole fuse panel and just keep the OEM ones as emergency spares. At $5 each a no-brainer.

    If after you do this replacement you find that something doesn't work, check to make sure that when you re-inserted the connector you didn't do it at an angle and bend one of the female pins open (I plead guilty). I just pinched the ends and made sure to insert the connector straight in.

    Works like a champ. Total labor: 30 min. 1 hour if your watching music videos!
     
  8. Zertec

    Zertec Formula 3

    Oct 5, 2004
    1,335
    Singapore
    Full Name:
    Clive Reed
    #33 Zertec, Jun 4, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Actually I don't work on the rigs. I work for a law firm and I like to describe my job as dealing with "things that go bump in the night."

    As a consequence, however, I often disappear at a moments notice, sometimes without any communications and often without Internet access. I am back in Singapore today and will be back with the car stuff ASAP.

    The latest problem that I am helping a client with includes rather a lot of frozen squid and this:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    That looks like a TomS barn find. It'll buff right out.
     
  10. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
  11. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    Over the last few months, I've had some intermittent starting problems with my 3.2 Cab. The starter turns the engine over fine, but no fire. After reading many threads on the fuse box topic, I discovered I could tap on the fuse box, and it would fire up. Well, I decided to solve that problem and change out all of my relays. I did that, and everything worked fine.....until this weekend. When attempting to leave a Ferrari outing - of all places - the car did the same thing. After repeated tapping and banging on the fuse box, it cranked up.

    OK, I don't plan to go anywhere in it again until I'm pretty satisfied I've got it fixed (I've found that wives aren't very understanding of these types of things when they're ready to go home - luckily, she wasn't with me last night).....Accordingly, ANY new news on when we might expect to see a new fuse box being ready for these cars? Also, any thoughts/comments from anyone on what else I might try in the meantime?
     
  12. Bandit

    Bandit Formula Junior

    Dec 21, 2003
    493
    Central MS
    Full Name:
    Mike B.
    My 328 did the exact same thing. I pulled the fuel pump safety switch plug off the fuel distributor and noticed that the pump did not run sometimes when I turned the key. Tapping on the fuel pump relay would temporarily solve the problem, but it continued to get worse. The problem turned out to be in the wiring harness conector where it plugged into the fuse box. The circuit had gotten hot and made the connection loose. It had discolored the white connector housing, but nowhere near like the first picture in the thread. The connector was right next to the relay, so I guess tapping on the relay jiggled the connector enough for it to make contact.

    I bent the connector back into place and wedged a couple of pieces of nylon zip-tie material between the connector and the housing to ensure a good contact with the fuse box pin. Haven't had any trouble since.
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    would agree the problem may well be at the white plastic connector on the inside wall of the fusebox - would remove, inspect and solidly re-seat.
    good luck.

    The failure modes of this conector are well documented in this thread with exactly your symptoms.
     
  14. zenw

    zenw Rookie

    Jan 6, 2006
    2
    Sydney
    Hi, have been reading the posts made in this topic thread. Have thoroughly enjoyed them. Thought that I would write about what has happened on the electrical side of my lean mean green machine....

    Well, I had the original fuse box (the one with the two slot in modules for the ceramic fuses). Obviously designed by aliens, this was a never ending source of problems. Had much work done on it including various bypass circuits etc. Had initially balked at the AUD $2000 + figure for one of the redesigned fuse boxes (which came out on the 3.2). I had an option to buy one back in 2001/2 but didn't proceed. Oh how I wish that I had! The numerous problems including cooling fan cutting out and engine overheating followed by water pump carking it, hoses splitting under extreme heat and pressure conditions, air conditioning system dying due to intermittant problems of power / no power to the fuel pump not getting a connection! You name it, I had it with my car. Possibly aggravated by my insistence on using it on a daily basis....A beautiful car not being used is like a beautiful woman dying an old maid.....

    Well, I searched high and low for a replacement fuseboard. Took around 1.5 years, but I finally found one. Oh the absolute joy! The car runs perfectly now....

    I would thoroughly recommend all owners to obtain the redesigned fuse board. The swap out is 1/2 hours worth of work. There is a cost, but it is worth it.

    I would also strongly recommend that the relays for the radiator fans be removed and housed off of the main board. Also, a must is to put a relay near to the fuel pump (i.e. well away from the board). The Fuel pump and the ignition switch appear to be on the same circuit with the fuel pump sucking up a lot of current. This causes the damn thing to run extremely hot. Rerouting the relay alleviates this problem and actually serves to pseudo separate the circuit.

    Whilst not directly related to the crappy original fuse box design, indirectly is the tendancy for the engine to run hot in traffic. I don't know about the US delivered models, but the Austrlalian delivered cars only had a single fan for the radiator. There are fan kits available to be purchased. I would STRONGLY recommend that all owners find one and have it installed. Since the second fan (and fuse box), I have not had the temperature rise above the mid point of the meter.

    On the whole hot thing, have also switched coolant to the new bio coolant. This rather awful orange coloured mixture seems to have had a positive effect from the pukey green one that used to be de rigeur.

    On a final note, have used NOS along with BP Ultimate articially boosting the octane level to 105%. Man, the engine produces so much more....all this without running any hotter.....

    Ciao for now
     
  15. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Mar 31, 2006
    32,793
    East Central, FL
    Full Name:
    Wade O.
    #40 Wade, Sep 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. Shark49

    Shark49 Formula Junior

    Mar 31, 2005
    773
    Boone, NC
    Full Name:
    Nathan
  17. DougS026

    DougS026 Formula Junior

    Oct 4, 2005
    325
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Doug S
     
  18. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    Has anyone come up with a suitable electronic replacement for our relays? I know in the applications I've used them (for instance, on the flasher/turn signal circuits of some American cars I've owned), the electronic versions have worked FAR better than their older mechanical equivalents. I just replaced all of my Mondial fuse box relays with new Bosch units, but if the ongoing fuse box replacement project becomes a fuse box replacement product, I would like to switch all of my new mechanical relays for new electronic models........If an electronic replacement has not been found, please advise, and I'll take on that project.

    Thanks.
     
  19. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    #44 Ricambi America, Oct 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    Looks like the connector to me.....anyone else think the same?

    Also, do you have the metal connectors that provide the electrical connection within this plastic housing? If so, what's the "kit" price?
     
  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    I agree, I think that the infamous inboard vertical fusebox connector with the evil fuel pump power feed.

    If you have the little clip doofers that go inside as well as a kit, this would be a VERY useful thing for any Mondial over 10 years old.
     
  22. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
  23. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Yes, I have the pins. They are $0.80/ea
     
  24. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    #49 snj5, Oct 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    You know, as I sit here and think about replacing this, since Ricambi has the pins and connector body - if we could find a more robust type of pin clamp to replace the fragile ones that are stock, al least for the fuel pump pin, we would eliminate the possibility of recurrent burn out.
    Will look at some other types of clamps that may fit in Daniel's connector.

    Daniel - you will be hearing from me shortly.

    A photo for those who have not seen it:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. Rival

    Rival Formula Junior

    May 12, 2005
    399
    Misipi
    I was about to order a "kit" from Daniel, but I may hold off for a few days in case you're able to come up with a more reliable connection in the weak fuel pump connection...........Russ, thanks for all of the time you've put into this whole Mondial fuse box / connector project. I know very little about automotive electrics, so I, and many others here, will benefit from the research you've done on this weakness in our cars.

    After you've talked with Daniel about the possible upgrade of his connector, we look forward to learn of your findings.

    Thanks again.
     

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