Montoya was right..........

Top driver with the top team, that's an incredible combination to overcome. No matter what anyone says, the cars are far from being equal, there are way too many variables in the equation. Ferrari has the winning formula for now.....

 

IM very HO: the SCCA/FIA/etc... grants licenses to those who demonstrate knowledge and ability of the racing game. Heck, you can't even drive a kart without review. What may seem perfectly fair to someone who has not "been there", can actually be a very dangerous and silly move. The rules are there to protect the competent driver (and spectator, for that matter) from the actions of the wanna-be-I-think-I'm-better-than-Senna types. So I would say that someone with even a little track experience can speak volumes about an overtaking move, a driver's ability - or lack thereof, etc., etc. Hubert's comments seem pretty strong, but are obviously based on experience.

The frustrating thing about any Montoya-chat is that there are people on this board (backed up by former and current F1 drivers, broadcasters, and journalists) who know what kind of crap JPM is pulling (past, present, future[?]). When these discretions are pointed out, the resident FerrariChat Montoya sympathisers are at the ready with flamethrowers in hand. And while everyone is certainly due their own opinion, it seems (unfortunately) there are people on this board who make it their full time job to flame anyone with a negative Montoya comment. It is also pretty clear that many of those people have never spent the time or effort to learn and understand the racing game - much less the basics. Having said my piece, I can understand Hubert's frustration, because I've been there too.
Jim

 

I kinda forgot, i didn't see the incident as such a big deal, JPM got ahead because he braked later but that was temporary and he fell right back because of braking late out of the racing line, so he got ahead but not enough to pass IMO, kudos for trying though.

 

You all need to go back and read the previous thread from right after the Italian GP http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15958

You all are making this way to complicated just like on the other thread.

Facts:

- JPM tried a legal pass at Tosa on the outside and did in fact get his front wheels ahead of MS before turn in.

-JPM had every right to attempt a pass here. Read the FIA rule book:

Chapter IV Article 2c state:

"curves, as well as the approach and exit zones thereof, may be
negotiated by the drivers in any way they wish, within the limits
of the track. Overtaking, according to the circumstances, may
be done either on the right or on the left.

At this point Juan is RIGHT TO DO SO (or at least has the RIGHT TO DO SO). It's what happens at turn in and beyond that voids his claim. You all, except Hubert, seem to be missing this point.

More Facts:

- JPM, after getting ahead of MS briefly, then started to lose traction and as he turned in under very late braking, his car started to understeer badly and the car was "washing out". It's up to JPM to make a safe pass. He has sole responsibility for making the pass safe and the moment his car became unbalanced he no longer has the right to any piece of real estate MS was expecting to occupy given his intended line.

AT THIS POINT where Montoya no longer has complete control over his car and as his car is changing from his intended trajectory MS NO LONGER HAS TO GIVE JUAN ANY RACING ROOM NOR DOES MS NEED TO CHANGE HIS INTENDED TRAJECTORY!!!!!!!!

End of story!!!!!! The only way JPM could claim what he did, is if the car had stuck and not understeered at turn in and thereafter. Once the car washed out it's anybodies corner and the "give racing room" no longer applies.

Juan made a legal pass but then bobbled the entry and exit at this point MS doesn't need to do anything.

JPM would have ended up where he was regardless of what MS did. JPM braked too late, then got bad understeer as the car got unbalanced and at this point he had to open up the steering to re-gain traction meaning he had no chance of getting his original intended line.

END OF STORY.

Regards,

Jon P. Kofod
www.flatoutracing.net

 

Well said Jon,

I seem to remember saying something to the same subject two weeks ago today but in a much more condensed version. Something to extent of "JPM braked later and drove deeper into the corner but could not hold traction and had to release or lose control completely". Not exactly in those words but in the same vein. Like you said, once he deviated from his intended pass, it is MS property and JPM has to take it back away SAFELY. Not being able to do that, he must give it up.

 

In my opinion MS was going for his typical "chop" as he had a good jump on Montoya from the outset. However he caught Trulli rushing through with a lot more speed and backed off because of it. Michael is not stupid and didn't want to take himself out of the race. He made the right move and started gaining on Trulli after a few laps, ultimately passing him in the first pit stop.

 

Aside from all this, what would JPM have to say about running Ralf off seconds later?

Possibly, "...Defending my position"

Should JPM really be fingerpointing?

 

JPM was wrong. Simple as that. Just like the game Cricket, whether you like it all not the umpire has made their decision.

Move on people, nothing to see here ...

Pete

 

I'm with Skelter here. I don't see what the big deal is. It's racing guys...
These are all typical scraps you see for position in the early stages of a race. Some of you complain that F1 is becoming sterilized and boring, then why do you in the same breath demonize MS for everything he does which doesn't involve running a race by himself 30 seconds ahead of the pack?

Everyone I know who watches F1 with me usually falls asleep after the first few laps. Now, that could be because here, down under, some F1 races need to be telecast at about the same time an ecstacy-pumped raver would decide it's time to go to bed after a night of clubbing and caffeine pills. But could it also be because there is real excitement to be had in watcing drivers fight for position early on in the race?

I sense some kind of anti-MS theme rising, probably because he's the best driver out there by long, long shot, and the best driver in the history of the sport in my opinion. But he isn't doing anything any other F1 pilot wouldn't be doing in his place when being challenged for position (In a reckless manner to boot. Yes, trying to overtake from the OUTSIDE of that corner shows complete recklessness) When a loudmouth whiner like Montoya comes along and says that MS can get away with anything just because "he's MS" some people are actually take him seriously? Funny how his own **** doesn't seem to stink, though.
Every serious F1 analyst, every person who has seen or participated in any kind of motor sport, is saying that MS had every single right to take the line he did...

They will also tell you, "hey, it's racing"

 

Next corner.

 

exactly

 

http://www.pitpass.com/images/fun/cartoons/sanmarinohandbags.jpg

 

JPM is a whining punk. Hey Juan, go out and win six and most likely seven World's and then you can talk, until then just STFU!!!