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Motor Trend 360CS vs Gt3

Discussion in '360/430' started by allanlambo, Mar 16, 2004.

  1. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    The Porsche ended up being substantially quicker, but in the end i got the impression they would rather have the CS. So would i.
     
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  3. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
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    Chris
    That Gt3 is very impressive espicially for a naturaly aspirated flat 6.
     
  4. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    I haven't read Motor Turd for about 15 years.......it's birdcage liner if you ask me. I am not taking an opinion on their article either.
     
  5. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 3, 2002
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    Carbon McCoy
    Stupendous! Thanks for sharing...
     
  6. RaptorAKL

    RaptorAKL Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2003
    451
    McLean, VA
    The Porsche was faster. However:

    1. This particular CS had already been tested by several other mags and had been thrashed pretty hard. The clutch had been worn down a bit and MT suspected that after their test, the CS would be paying a visit to the shop for a replacement.

    2. The Ferrari won because subjectively it did most everything better according to MT. It was more intense and exciting, it had more balenced handling, it communicated better to the driver, it was more striking to behold and to hear, it was more fun on the road and track, and it actually was smoother and more comfortable.

    I've been in both, and I have to say that I agree with MT on this one. While the numbers in this test may favor the GT3, the CS felt faster and it was somewhat more exciting to drive. It delivers the rush that only a Ferrari can.
     
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  8. Aureus

    Aureus Formula 3

    That article simply pissed me off. The Porsche was faster by .4 seconds in 0-60 and the quarter mile by 1. It won every single performance related event except for braking I believe... and they handicapped the Porsche there by not getting the ceramic brakes that the Ferrari was so outfitted with.

    That and something is very wrong about the way they did the weight... They said the Ferrari was estimated at 3,000 lbs. with the Porsche at 3040lbs. The Ferrari had a 100 horsepower advantage according to the article but lost every measure of acceleration. Something wrong here? (All numbers are approximate as I can’t find my copy of the magazine.. doubly pissing me off now)

    Something very wrong happened with that article.
     
  9. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
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    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    Drive a Murci and I bet you'd edit that line a little bit to include a second Italian carmaker...
     
  10. Davey S1

    Davey S1 Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
    375
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    David
    British mags have done 2 tests recently. Evo did one with the 360 CS v GT3 over the Stelvio Pass. 360 CS came out as the clear winner on performance as the GT3 gained some ground at the turns but was destroyed on the straights. Price difference came into it as well though (Ferrari £130K and GT3 £75K)

    Autocar recently did a test with the 360CS v the GT3RS. On performance their figures were virtually identical. The price difference seemed to swing things in the Porkers favour though as it was £45K cheaper.

    I would have the 360 though. Porsches just dont excite.
     
  11. exiges

    exiges Karting

    Feb 26, 2004
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    David Brown
    "Car magazine" in the UK compares the 360 CS with the GT3 and preferred the CS because the GT3 is too skittish on UK roads, but would perhaps win in a country where the roads aren't so badly maintained.
     
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  13. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    Feb 13, 2004
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    Both EVO and CAR have concluded that the CS is NOT the best car. Specifically EVO voted the GT3 PCOTY, Gallardo 2nd with the Ferrari CS following, I'm not sure it even made third place.
    I am not aware of any GT3 vs CS test in car other than the current GT3 RS comparison, where they concluded that the Ferrari was a better road car than the Porsche, which was too track based, which is it's entire purpose, I believe.
    In the only Porsche CS test I read in CAR, they picked the Gallardo over the Porsche Turbo followed by the CS.

    You may conclude from my post that I am not a big 360 fan and you would be correct. Not only do I prefer the looks of the 355, it's performance on a track, in standard form, is so far behind the Porsche it's embarrasing, particularly given the price differential. As a road car, it is far from being the ultimate F-car IMO.

    When shopping for a Ferrari recently, I decided on the 550 as a sports road car. Coincidently the April issue of EVO arrived in the mail this week, validating my assesment by judging the 550 to be the Performance Car of the Decade.
     
  14. Davey S1

    Davey S1 Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2004
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    David

    True but several people wrote to Evo rightly asking how the 360 CS could be the comprehensive winner over the GT3 in the test at Stelvio and then come 4th in ecoty. Evo seems to change its mind about cars a lot.

    I agree that both the GT3 and GT3RS have the measure of the 360 in terms of price (and performance in the case of the RS). Still 360 for me though.

    Couldnt agree more about the 550 though. Awesome car
     
  15. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
     
  16. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    having driven both the 550 and a 360 coupe and spider extensively i can say the 360s are quicker and handle much better and are more fun to drive...the 550 is around 4000lbs.!!!!!it is a fine gt car but a totally different car than a 360...
     
  17. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    i have 2nd opinion on the porsche gt3..its ugly too!!!! aside from that,the acceleration numbers they got from 380hp and 3k lbs seem too fast....and if you are going for speed for the dollar, the z06 makes more sense than the porsche
     
  18. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,058
    Its TQ that does the acceleration, and not the poeak number, but the shape of the curve. In addition, a rear engined car leaves the line quicker because it starts with more weight on the rear tires and transfers additional weight quicker to the rear tires==higher traction. This is consistent with the first paragraph where the Porsche was 0.4 seconds faster to 60, but only 0.1 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile.
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    This weekend the flag will drop and once again the bullsh it will stop. I'm betting on P.
     
  20. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
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    car and driver mag...which is a much more reputalble tester, had both the 360cs and gt3 at 4.0 for 0-60..so much for rear engine traction
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    At Sebring, where the timing is very accurate, P GT3rs have out qualified F's 360GT's, the Corvette's have out qualified the 575 GTC, and Audi has out qualified everyone. (practice times) Flag drops on sat.
    This is real racing not mag racing bullshi t.
     
  22. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Dec 7, 2003
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    The GT3 is, by all accounts, a smidgeon faster than the 360 CS in equally capable hands.

    Everything else aside, the GT3 takes a lot more cajones to make it dance than does a 360 CS, but the person with cajones will be just a touch faster in the Porsche than he will be in the 360 CS.

    The GT3 takes a spincter of steel to make it fast, and I respect anyone that wins in it.
     
  23. exiges

    exiges Karting

    Feb 26, 2004
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    David Brown
    Have you read this months edition of CAR (April 2004) ? I quote their summary:

    "The 911 is to most of us the better looking shape, the better made car too, and it's just 63% of the cost of the 360 CS price. It's the one closest to a track car too. But in the end that's what does for it. Worship the RS at Le Mans, buy one if you intend to be there on the grid yourself. But for the roads we've been on, Ferrari makes the better car"
     
  24. fanatic1

    fanatic1 Guest

    Nov 1, 2003
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    philip
    I read the same R & T article........although the Porsche beat the F by minimal amounts on a few tests, in the end R & T clearly stated that all things considered, they'd rather have the F Car.............for people that enjoy all aspects of the cars, which there are many more aspects than just speed, Ferrari can't be beat. Now Ferrari can be beat in many clinical tests, but overall the personal experience counts for something and I was glad to see Road and Track voiced that opinion.
     
  25. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
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    Andy
    The Car article just shows how subjective some things are :)

    The 360 is far from my favourite Ferrari shape, but in CS guise it's substantially improved to the point where I think Ferrari missed something not releasing the exterior of the std car like this from the outset.

    The 996 is similarly far from my favourite 911 variant, but I don't personally think the GT3RS improves matters. Still, each to their own.

    One thing I still scratch my head on with these type of cars is why people buy them predominantly for track use. You can spunk a shed load less money on a Radical or even a Caterham and get absolutely spanked on track. You can drive both to and from track (in the UK at least), or could buy a decent tow car and trailer for tracks further away and STILL have a boot (trunk) full of cash left over even compared to the GT3RS.

    So comparing the two with each other and making judgements over tenths of a second is largely missing the point (I think). They are more raw interpretations of the base models they eminate from, and as such will polarise opinion. But I don't believe either are meant to be the absolute last word on track, just quicker versions of the base metal with some additional cues to satisfy those after a slightly rawer experience.

    Personally, it wouldn't matter if the CS were a good deal slower than the GT3RS, I'd still put my money Ferrari's way (and VERY nearly did) as the overall package is significantly more desirable (to me).

    In terms of real racing at Sebring etc, you're not comparing the same vehicles. As noted, Audi outqualified everyone but do we really think the current crop of Audis is going to wet our collective whistles in the same way that either the 911 or 360 does? Nah.
     
  26. scycle2020

    scycle2020 F1 Rookie

    Jan 26, 2004
    3,458
    potomac
    GT3 is the better looking car?.....these testers have some serious eye pathology need to see an ophthalmologist ASAP!!!!!!!
     
  27. murph7355

    murph7355 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
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    Andy
    Quite.

    Maybe the same myopia caused errors when reading the clocks :)
     
  28. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
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    Gary B.
    Wow. Goes to show there's no accounting for some people's taste. Can't imagine preferring the P-car's looks. You can make a case for more performance per dollar but appearance? I can't imagine 1 person in 100 preferring the Porsche.

    Gary
     

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