355 - Motronic 5.2 help identifying bulging component? | FerrariChat

355 Motronic 5.2 help identifying bulging component?

Discussion in '348/355' started by ChadFeldheimer, Jan 12, 2021.

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  1. ChadFeldheimer

    May 15, 2020
    9
    Full Name:
    Nicholas Wang
    My ECU has a bulging component (green cylinder marked RO51K or R051K). Does anyone know what this is? It is along the right side of the picture. There's two - only the upper one is bulging. Both ohm out at ~0 ohms, but I suspect (hope?) the upper one is misbehaving at operating current.

    Symptoms:

    My car cranks but doesn't start (and run) reliably, and my OBD reader no longer connects to the ECU (immobilizer disarmed, ignition on... my reader used to connect just fine under these conditions). Fuel pressure is good, but no spark or fuel injector signals. I was hoping it was the crankshaft position sensor - its wiring is intact and I changed the sensor which allowed the car to run for a few minutes once, but now it's back to not running - and OBD still doesn't work.

    Thanks very much
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  2. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    There are five upright components attached to big heat sinks. The one at the very bottom is attached to one of those R051K device. Can you tell me what the markings are? Knowing what the device is attached to may help identifying what the R051K device is and what it is supposed to do.

    And what do you mean by "bulging" ??
     
  3. ChadFeldheimer

    May 15, 2020
    9
    Full Name:
    Nicholas Wang
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
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    Mitchell Le
    That is a Field Effect Transistor (FET) of N-channel type, with built in temperature protection capability. Most likely used as a power driver for the the various outputs of the ECU. Further looking at the top R051K device does not indicate that it is bulging. That is what they look like. It is probably a bias power resistor for the driver out put.

    In summary, I don't think anything is wrong with those components. Your problem may be someplace else.
     
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  5. ChadFeldheimer

    May 15, 2020
    9
    Full Name:
    Nicholas Wang
    Thank you very much for weighing in. I will continue the hunt!!!
     
  6. m.stojanovic

    m.stojanovic F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2011
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    Miroljub Stojanovic
    R051K should be a wire wound inductor, basically a wire coil with inductance of 51 nH (nanohenry). Its resistance is practically zero and it is probably there to "choke" certain parasitic high frequencies.
     
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  7. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Check the air gap between the crank sensor and the trigger wheel. If it has been changed at some stage then this could be an issue. It certainly was for mine. I just pulled from the box and installed BUT at a later date a smarter person than myself found it to have way to much air gap than what the WSM stated.
     
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  8. ChadFeldheimer

    May 15, 2020
    9
    Full Name:
    Nicholas Wang
    Thanks for all the help.

    I checked the crankshaft position sensor gap - it was 0.53mm with a shim installed, which is within spec (WSM calls for 0.35-0.90mm). I removed the shim, which adjusted the clearance to 0.50mm. No change.

    I now suspect the immobilizer. I have three symptoms:

    1) fob intermittently works
    2) OBD2 won't connect
    3) cranks but often won't start - or will start and then dies shortly after

    It seems like a defective immobilizer could be the root of all these problems.

    When I removed the immobilizer trim cover, I discovered three wire taps on the immobilizer wiring harness. They led to an aftermarket alarm / shock sensor (that was partially disconnected). Ugh. I cut out the wire taps and repaired the wiring. That didn't fix it, although it seems to have slightly improved - the fob seems more reliable and the engine will briefly start more often. Tapping the immobilizer case seems to make a difference when the fob is having a bout of unresponsivemess.

    The aftermarket alarm worked by shorting a white/black wire in the immobilizer harness to ground. *sigh* Does anyone know what signal this white/black wire carries?

    The other wire taps were to the yellow and red/green wires. They fed relay inputs that would conditionally short the white/black wire to ground.

    Immofixer.com says common failure modes of the immobilizer are cracked solder joints and failed relays. I'll take a close look at these - any other suggestions?
     
  9. Beetle

    Beetle Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2013
    776
    Michael from immofixer is very good to deal with. Maybe send the system to him with fobs and get it checked out. At least that will eliminate the immobilizer problem. Or it could solve the whole problem. I seems very wierd for the car to start and run then shut down
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    White/black(stripe) or black/white (stripe)?

    Black/white on pin 12 of plug B (the plugs are faintly marked) should be a hard earth for the ECU. The ECU has a lot of earths, and it's not clear what each one does. The immobiliser diagnostic plug shares this earth.

    Solid yellow is power from the ignition key. Red/Green is direct battery power (fused). The hazard light system uses this battery power.

    Do you know which pins of this relay these wires were connected to?
     
  11. ChadFeldheimer

    May 15, 2020
    9
    Full Name:
    Nicholas Wang
    You all are amazing.

    It was the white wire with black stripe. It is connected the called out pin (see attached picture) on plug E. My 3 plugs are marked E, F, and D. F is the antenna / middle plug and D is the plug with heavier gauge pins.

    I measured 21 ohms to ground on the white with black stripe wire (which was the one that was wire-tapped and conditionally shorted to ground by the aftermarket alarm system). I measured ~1 ohm to ground on the black with white stripe wire. Should both these wires be hard grounds?

    There were two relays installed. The coil inputs to relay 1 were immobilizer yellow (ignition key power) and ground. The normally connected outputs were used, with one leading to the aftermarket alarm and the other output leading to a relay 2 coil input.

    The other coil input on relay 2 was connected to immobilizer red/green (direct battery power). Someone had already disconnected this other input when I discovered it, thus disabling the alarm. The normally open outputs were used on relay 2, connected to ground and immobilizer white with black stripe.

    It seems the alarm forced the white with black stripe wire to ground when the ignition is off AND the alarm activated. With the ignition on, the alarm does nothing.

    If this doesn't end up being something trivial, I'll be in touch with Michael / immofixer for sure!
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  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Crazy.... Ferrari uses one labelling system, my plugs are labelled differently, and yours are labelled differently (again)

    Anyway, the white/black wire is related to courtesy lamps, door open switches, window control...

    Maybe a wiring diagram would help:

    https://www.dropbox.com/t/05GIF3UgHpAf2HU0

    The wiring is attached to 10 different diagrams, but this is a basic overview. If you save the file, try to open it with Windows Paint. This will allow you to zoom in (in multiples of 2x, 6x, 8x). The colours are kept constant at these magnifications.


    The white/back wire (Italian colour code BN) is found on pin D18 on my car and pin B8 on the Ferrari diagram. This is the 20 pin plug shown in your photo. I've marked my numbers and Ferrari numbers on the diagram.

    Just to be sure, the wire is white/black (BN) and not grey/black (HN)?

    You may need the wiring diagram related to courtesy lamps, door switches, etc to figure out if this is correct.

    Was this on the smaller immobiliser plug? The black/white is at earth, but it's a long wire which goes through a lot of splices to the earth lug on the back of the engine block. Make sure that the earth is clean. Let me know if you need a photo to help you find it (it's near the cam sensor on the right bank).

    OK... head spinning. A hand-drawn diagram would help here :D
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Here's the earth.

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    The return path to your multimeter will also include the engine to chassis earth (which can get dirty, too). This might explain the 1.0 ohm reading.
     
  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I had a look at the white/black wire on the Window Control Wiring Diagram. You'll probably get lots of different ohm readings depending on things like doors being opened. The wire is also attached to lamps, the internal wiring of the Window Control Unit, the F1 TCU (if your car has an F1 gearbox)....

    Look at splice [30017] in both the immobiliser diagram and this diagram:

    https://www.dropbox.com/t/OX0lnq08jKJduIRG
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I believe on the 5.2 car, that the immobiliser controls the courtesy light time delay. I can't even imagine how this messes with added on alarm systems.
     
  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Just to confirm, the yellow and red/green wires were on your 16-pin plug. I have seen a photo of a car which also had a yellow wire on the 20 pin plug (function unknown)
     
  17. ChadFeldheimer

    May 15, 2020
    9
    Full Name:
    Nicholas Wang
    Some updates here.

    Michael at Immofixer helped me find a leaky capacitor on the immobilizer interface unit. He was super helpful!

    Earlier this spring, my problem actually went away by itself. I was able to enjoy most of the summer until it returned again (car either would either (1) crank without starting or (2) start for a split second and then die - fuel pressure is good, but no spark or fuel injection). Then a few weeks later, with no action on my part, the car behaved normally again.

    Michael / Immofixer noted that a failed immobilizer interface unit has the same symptoms. However, the symptom is normally permanent instead of intermittent.

    With that guidance, I opened up my immobilizer interface unit and lo and behold found a leaking electrolytic capacitor. One of the circuit board traces underneath the capacitor was darkened. I desoldered the capacitor and tested all nearby traces - fortunately all were good, including the darkened trace. I cleaned up the leaked fluid, soldered in a new capacitor and so far so good.

    I unfortunately pulled out one of the leads on the original capacitor while removing it, so I couldn't confirm its performance was degraded. But I'm cautiously optimistic that it was the cause of my problems.

    Time will tell.

    Many thanks for all your help
     
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