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My engine is coming out.. what's next?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by james.colangelo, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. james.colangelo

    james.colangelo Karting

    Jan 28, 2008
    212
    Detroit, MI USA
    Full Name:
    James Colangelo
    As some of you know by now, the continuing saga of my 83 400i is reaching another milestone. Engine removal in order to repair the passenger side head gasket. I will of course be doing the driver side as well, but we all know that this is rare opportunity to handle several other items, and I'm looking to all of you to tell me what those are.

    I know for sure that I'll be pulling the radiator and having it re-cored, as well as refinishing my valve covers and a couple of other items while they are off. The heads will be sent out for testing / adjustment etc. as well. I think the obvious belts and hoses should be done, but other than that I think I'll need a timing chain, and some other items. Also I was thinking this could be a good time to have my linkage refinished in the proper color (zinc?) but I'm TBD on that.

    When I order parts, I want to get as many of the right parts as possible in one shot, so any help you have with your experience here would be great. I want this to be done right.

    When the engine comes out, I'll be posting plenty of pictures on this thread. The shop hasn't begun work just yet but I anticipate they will be doing it soon.

    Thanks as usual!

    Jim
     
  2. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 17, 2006
    3,498
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    Off the top of my head I would say all new valves.

    (Why engine removal for head gaskets? Is that required? For some reason I thought head gaskets could be done on these cars with the engine in situ.)
     
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  3. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 10, 2010
    447
    Sainte Colombe, France (near Lyon)
    Full Name:
    Jean-Michel Savary
    Hello Jim, this is just a suggestion but while the engine is out, you may want to have a good look at the distribution gears (on top of the timing chain of course). These gears are difficult to source.
     
  4. james.colangelo

    james.colangelo Karting

    Jan 28, 2008
    212
    Detroit, MI USA
    Full Name:
    James Colangelo
    It is unfortunately an engine-out according to my mechanic who also went to Ferrari about it. I guess both could be wrong but who am I to question? :)
     
  5. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    4,737
    North Pole AK
    New chain and chain guides. Also rebuild oil/water pump. Not sure if these are sodium filled hollow exhaust valves but if they are get rid of them. How many miles? Micro polish crank and new main and rod bearings? New valve stem seals. How are the guides? New front and rear main seals?
    Wow, it's really easy to spend someone else's money! :)
     
  6. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    4,737
    North Pole AK
    While you're at it I've wondered how one of these cars would run with a modern distributorless ignition system and modern port sequential fuel injection system.
     
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  7. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    323
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    The main reason for the engine removal lies in the fact that the head is more often than not "soldered" on the engine; extracting it is horrendous when the engine is in the car. But since your gasket is gone, the head should be easy to remove with the motor still in the engine bay.

    If the engine is out, maybe it's a good time to replace the rubber hose of the water pump, that's the sort of part impossible to replace when the motor is in the engine bay. For the rest quite agree with the others, as long as the engine was not been abused, there are no horror stories to be expected from the bottom side (crankshaft, bearing should be fine), but getting rid of the old sodium valves (replace with new sodium ones for originality, or cheaper stainless ones for peace of mind), new guides (if need be), new seals (cheap), water pump inspection, gears inspection (the gears were updated, but earlier ones as seen on the 400 carb were fragile, do not know for sure when the design changed) new chains (cheap) and tensioner (if need be).

    While you are there, if your mechanic has the proper tool, checking for exact valve timing (not just the camshaft marks) could be a good idea.
     
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  8. james.colangelo

    james.colangelo Karting

    Jan 28, 2008
    212
    Detroit, MI USA
    Full Name:
    James Colangelo
    This is great information everyone, thank you so much. The engine and gearbox were both rebuilt about 20K miles ago (I have about 63K on the clock now) so I expect the bottom end to be in excellent shape. If the head gasket hadn't failed I wouldn't consider myself due for an engine out service at all but.. here we are.. so I'll be tackling most of what you've included here so far. Keep it coming!
     
  9. james.colangelo

    james.colangelo Karting

    Jan 28, 2008
    212
    Detroit, MI USA
    Full Name:
    James Colangelo
    My ignition was converted to an MSD but that's about as far as I'll go .. :)
     
  10. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,202
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    My engine was out in 2014 in order to change the timing chain tensioner; the chain can be done in the car, but not the tensioner. Here is another Ferrari design to maximize the Ferrari techs time to do a relatively easy job. So if your tensioner has any wear, change it!

    Some of the above suggestions sound 'over the top' and likely not needed. Most 400's valve adjustment is still good at 60,000+ miles so the valves and seats have not worn.

    I opted to do only items that were cost effective with the motor out. This included motor mounts and all gaskets and seals that would leak outside the motor, this includes a couple at the back near the firewall.

    As for removing the head, I have an old story. I once had a Lancia Zagato with the V-4 motor (one head!). Its head gasket was blown but head would not budge off block. I used a crane on the head and actually lifted the front of the car and it would not break the seal. Not knowing any better I got pretty brutal with implements of destruction and finally got it off with some self-inflicted damage. I learned later that all that was needed was a spark plug fitted with an air connection (leak down kit). Just gradually raise the pressure and POP off it comes. The pressure first pushes that piston down and air leaks around rings but you can still get good pressure. I am not ready to suggest this for a 400 motor unless someone else has done it with good results.
    Ken
     
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  11. james.colangelo

    james.colangelo Karting

    Jan 28, 2008
    212
    Detroit, MI USA
    Full Name:
    James Colangelo
    Thanks for this Ken I appreciate it. Funny story.. well, funny NOW right.. haha
     
  12. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    323
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
  13. james.colangelo

    james.colangelo Karting

    Jan 28, 2008
    212
    Detroit, MI USA
    Full Name:
    James Colangelo
    Now that is interesting... hmm
     
  14. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    323
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    It's possible, but bear in mind that removing the engine is 1 day of labour, putting it back is 2 days (total $2000 ?). So keeping the engine "in situ" is not a huge saving, except of course if all you need is just to change the head gasket. For anything more sophisticated I would remove the engine.
     
  15. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    323
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    At 50.000km, valve clearance was totally off (noisy engine). At 98.000km, the teflon valve stem seals were shot (these are cheap parts but require to remove the camshafts), my valve guides had a bit of play (acceptable), quite a bit of acceptable play on the cylinders also. So got to agree that a reasonable repair is possible.
     
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