My first Fcar... 348tb 91

Hi everyone.

First the good news.
- took delivery of 348tb #89282 yesterday from David Miller at Forza288 in Dorset UK. Very friendly guy. David actually came to pick me and my wife at the train station on a Sunday afternoon which is quite a nice thing to do.
- Your help and guidance were invaluable in searching for the car and Fchatters comments about Forza288 were very reassuring as I actually acquired the car without seeing or driving it before (I know it's quite crazy and unrecommended but I had it IPPd at a main dealer and called all the garages that serviced it over the last three years)
- The car looks awesome IMHO in Blue Sera (color coded) and with rear whell spacers
- Drove the car from Dorset (UK) to Paris (France) under pouring rain.
- Drove the car to the office this morning with no problem

Then the bad news
- #89282 will not start this afternoon...
- Ferrari original immobilizer with little electronic key that needs to be plugged for a few seconds and then removed before starting the engine
- Ignition on
- Aircon starts blowing frantically with controls not working
- Nothing happens when key switched to starter.

It happened only once this morning and then the car started after second try, but now, nothing happens...

The battery was changed 4 months ago and all electrics are working (engine, headlights etc...) and the car worked very well just 12 hours ago.

Pretty sad as I have owned the car for less than 24 hours but I guess it is ritual initiation...

So, I was wondering if that is something that you guys had come across as I haven't found any thread on the topic.

Bonne route...

Louis
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Pretty normal I would say for 348s - run searches on the board for each of your questions. The heater /AC fix is often a easy cleaning.

 

First - NICE choice - see my profile...congratulations and more pix at your convenience.

Second - I had the "no start" problem as well when my car was hot. Mine was cured by my mechanic with a relay installation of some sort near the starter in order to give the starter enough voltage. Yours may be that, but there are some other possiblities too apparently.

Third - haven't had the problem myself but several others have with the a/c unit - read here http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56864 as you go down there are more links to the same problem and how to deal with it.

Try to be patient - mine took a while to work the bugs out of too.

Congrats again.

Cheers
Kevin

 

Then the bad news
- #89282 will not start this afternoon...
- Ferrari original immobilizer with little electronic key that needs to be plugged for a few seconds and then removed before starting the engine
- Ignition on
- Aircon starts blowing frantically with controls not working
- Nothing happens when key switched to starter.

It happened only once this morning and then the car started after second try, but now, nothing happens...

The battery was changed 4 months ago and all electrics are working (engine, headlights etc...) and the car worked very well just 12 hours ago.

Pretty sad as I have owned the car for less than 24 hours but I guess it is ritual initiation...

So, I was wondering if that is something that you guys had come across as I haven't found any thread on the topic.

Bonne route...

Louis[/QUOTE]

Louis,

first check the following.

I presume your battery is in the boot,

if so,

check/clean large 'bullet' connection above and forwards of the battery.

remove air box, and you will see a second large 'bullet' connector going to the starter motor
check/clean this.

Try to start engine,

If it starts, don't touch anything for 10 mins (accelerator etc) as you would have reset the ECUs and they need to reset themselves and the positions of throttle etc.

Let's know how you get on.

John

 

Many thanks for the welcome / compliments and of course for the threads redirection. I hadn't explored the Technical Q&A area of the board... Need a little more Fchat experience I guess.

Anyway, I'll change the battery today and see if it fixes the starting issue.

From reading the threads, I deduct that my A/C issue is battery connection related as it was working perfectly before the engine decided not to start anymore. I'll post back once I've tried the new battery.

Thanks again, and more pics...
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OK, just changed the battery (going through the engine bay, not by removing wheel and wheel guard as I'm of course in my office underground parking lot with no hope of being towed anywhere...) to no avail. Starter makes absolutely no noise whatsoever when I turn the key...

I will check the connector under the airbox next... I saw a thread on the old forum about that...

http://www.ferrariforum.com/tech/view.php?id=22

Any advice on removing the airbox and cleaning connectors? I know that is a very basic question, but I'm only starting...

Thanks a lot.

Louis

 

Gorgeous car! Love the color.

Hopefully you will have the issues sorted out.

 

Thanks Chiaro Slag !

Blue Sera has always been the colour of my dreams for post 308s Fcars...

I take out the airbox and clean the connector tomorrow and also try to start it from the starter as indicated in previous threads... Wish me luck !

 

I love it!

Keep us updated on your progress of getting the car sorted - If you need help, the guys in the technical section really know there stuff. Good luck!

Enjoy the car in good health!

 

Hey just remember, it can only go up from here!!!
That is a beautiful car you bought. I love the color combo. Kevin is right: it's going to take while for you to get the bugs out. Until then, just remember that your car has lines like no other, and that the 348, IMHO, is truly a modern design classic!!!

 

Love the interior color! Congrats and good luck!

 

I'm cleaning the battery-starter bullet connector today. Any advice on tools / cleaning products ?

I'm going to post this thread on the technical Q&A as well but will give news on this one.

Many thanks for all of your encouragement and compliments. This is a really friendly and kind community. Which is nice as Fcars don't attract these kind of reactions and feelings in France.

Have a nice day.

BTW the weather here has eventually turned sunny, so I took the Yamaha FZ6 out... Japanese to warm my heart when classics let me down...

Louis

 

Louis, a perfect French Blue!

The immobiliser may be the culprit. It probably only isolates the low-power solenoid circuit (plus ignition & maybe fuel also), so you may still be able to turn the engine over by bridging the starter terminals with a screwdriver or similar. See if you can get the starter to engage this way (make sure not in gear!)

If starter kicks then you can assume you have enough power available & so look into the solenoid circuit from key to solenoid via immobiliser. I'd get an auto-electrician to help out here, someone familiar with alarms/immobilisers.

Bon chance!

 

What a gorgeous 348! Enjoy

 

Loius,

Change your thread title to '348 won't turn over'. You will get a lot more replies from the techies.

The airbox is removed by 4 nuts (2 either side, 10mm i think) off the main air box.

You then remove the 2 off Jubilee clips clamping the box to the air flow meters.

It then lifts off.

To clean, for now I would just connect/reconnect which may be enough initially unless you have some abrasive cloth handy

To discount the immobiliser, I cannot power up/down the windows unless the immobiliser has been de-activated (led stops flashing) and ignition is on.
Yours may be different but if you can hear the solenoid kick in I suspect the immobilser is working.

Good Luck

John

 

Louis, beautiful car congrats.

Was it an original French car because of the yellow headlamps?
How many kilometers do you have on it?

JR

 

Guys,

Thanks a lot for the indications and nice comments on the car.

Back from the parking lot.
- cleaned the bullet connector (thanks John for indications),
- fiddled with the connection plug on the starter
- pushed gently the car in 5th
- As Daniel rightly pointed out, the strater will not even crank
- Forgot to mention that I checked all fuses except the 30A A/C fuse, which I failed to locate in spite of the number of posts on the subject... still learning...
- I won't dare jump connect the starter... I'm slightly too inexperienced for that. Don't want to set office parking lot on fire... Anyway, I cannot lift the car so access to starter is difficult. I'll try hammering it gently.


I'm starting to suspect the immobilizer which is rather bad news... I'm about to call Paris main dealer... this is how desperate I am.

No easy way out of this one I guess.

The worse thing is that I find it so beautiful that I'm not even angry. Just watching it already puts a wide smile on my face !!!

Thanks a lot for your help.

Louis

 

Thanks JR !

- The car is actually an original Ch. Pozzi - Ferrari France supplied car so headlights had to be yellow at the time. Feels weird now!
- 50,000 kms

Louis

 

Thats the one nice thing about Ferrari's. When they don't work it's hard to get too upset because you open the garage door and there they sit so beautiful. A rolling work of art. Louis great looking car. I had a nice Blue 328 and recently just got a Red 1991 348tb. Congratulations on your car. They can be finiky at times, but they are well worth it! Hang in there, you'll get it fixed and you will learn more and more about the car at the same time.

Brent

 

Louis, don't get disheartened. I know how it feels because I have the same & worse experience My car was sitting more often due to all the bugs & I'm giving it a final makeover now.

The heavy rain you went through can sometimes cause some electrical problems. (My car's alarm & horn went off between 4-8am in one wet morning @#-*) If the immobilisor is going to be a common problem, I would suggest not using it & install a modern aftermarket model with an updated alarm & central lock system. The two battery connections @ the back is a common problem. Your battery might not need to be changed at all. Check the fuses in the two boxes, one under the bonnet (you need a coin to twist open the 2 screws holding down the black felt cover) & one under the passenger "feet" (remove the carpet & a cover swings open).

After you fixed the connections; when you crank, are there any lights in the meters, eg. radio, headlights etc.? If it does, the connection/battery is good & starter could be the problem?

BTW, do you have an owner's manual? It has a lot of technicals & it can be downloaded from http://www.owners.ferrari.com by registering yourself with the chassis nos. FREE

Oh yes, it's a little weird to see yellow lights in French cities now. Most cars have xenon there these days. Welcome to the 348 family!

 

Beautiful car. I figure you get past this initial problem, and you'll be trouble-free for a long time. Did you ask the prior owner to see if he'd ever had the same issue? Prior owners are GREAT help!

 

OK, do you want to hear a fairy tale?

Called Hamilton & Palmer who supplied the immobilizer to Ferrari UK to get information on how to neutralise the system, which they naturally refused to do, which is good. They only agreed to supply this information to Ferrari UK. Then called Ferrari UK technicians to ask if they would kindly call Hamilton & Palmer to ask them the same question, which they very kindly agreed, subject to my sending reams of personal and car identification data. Special thanks to Ferrari UK technicians who agreed to help me out on a car that they never sold or maintained. I know its normal but it’s rare among other importers…

In the meantime, had the alarm specialists I had called in Paris came over to the office parking lot. It took them just 10 minutes to discover that there were 3 other circuit-breakers hidden all over the car on top of the Ferrari UK immobilizer and neutralize all four of them, which is quite frightening…

And… it started right away.

Did wait for 30 mins for the ECUs to settle as advised. And on top of it the AC controls woke up…

Special thanks should go to David Miller Forza 288 in the UK who sold the car to me. David, on top of delivering the car on a Sunday afternoon and picking me up at the train station (I came from France..), called everyday to see how I was progressing and directed me to the immobilizer all the time. That’s what I call supportive and efficient aftersales service. I forgot to mention that the car is absolutely pristine in and out. He had previously been recommended on various threads here, and I can only confirm that and more.

Finally, I would like to thank all of you fellow Fchatters for the incredible efforts you have put to find a solution on this. It actually helped be understand the car and in particular, I would never had tempted and actually managed to undo the airbox to actually find and clean the bullet connector between the battery and the starter. Special thanks go to Miltonian for thinking about me while mowing the lawn and for writing the longest post on a thread I started.

I had followed similar threads and in particular the one posted by jkuk in March 2004 which identified the Crank Position Sensor issue and was already amazed by the involvement of Fchatters and the fact that it actually solved the problem.

Now I’m done thanking everyone, I’m planning to drive #89282 down to the the Ile de Ré, off the Atlantic coast for the WE.

Next issue will be hot starting but I see that there are threads on this one as well….

A bientot and bonne route !

PS geekstreet, maybe the flowers helped…