News

348 My First Major & Belts - UK style!

Discussion in '348/355' started by A348W, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    "That" time has come around all to quickly, and having owned my 348 for 3 years now, its time for its first major and belts in my ownership. (Once I have baselined the maintenance I wont be doing it every 3 years, more like 5!)

    To prepare for this I've done a fair amount of reading and getting quotes from indies and main dealers alike. We are blessed here in the Uk that the main dealers do "classic" rates and are keen to get the older cars through the doors.

    So it has gone into my local main dealer, who are actually cheaper than some indies (those around London)! I only didn't use the indie I have for the previous services as they are a little way away and it would mean a day out of work to take the car there and drop it off, whereas my local main dealer is 20 minutes down the road and at the moment work is flat out.

    So, first impressions!?
    1) They were expecting me and had all the paper work ready. Always a plus!
    2) They were happy to fit some aftermarket coolant hoses I had that I could not get access to with the engine in the car, the ones at the front;
    3) They have offered to let me into the workshop to clean the engine and engine bay for as long as I like. (Very impressed with that!)
    4) They have put me on their premium scheme which is free, whereby they give me a list of things they think need to be done/ changed, I get a healthy discount on some parts (up to 50% apparently; but that doesn't mean they are any cheaper than aftermarket parts/alternatively sourced!), if within 10 years I clear the list I get a Classiche Certificate! If I don't clear the list, I still get the discount. (Happy days).

    So I'm having the major service and belts (£1.8k), rocker covers redone powder coated crinkle finish (£650), and I've got a quote for all cam shaft seals and shims (I'm not sure when last they were done) as I have a couple of leaks so they have given me a worst case quote (£1k). The tensioners were done last time with Hills so I don't feel the need to replace those. I'm sure there will be a few other bits and bobs, but hopefully not too much as she currently runs very sweet; although I wouldn't be surprised to hear I need new engine mounts etc, and there are some other annoying oil leaks or something!

    I'll update this post as we go and with pictures as I fully intend to spend a day in their garage cleaning, as it has had a leak for a few years and whilst I've cleaned the areas I can get to with the engine in the car, with the engine out there will be a lot more to do. (Oh and their receptionist are hot!...Sid :) )

    Fingers crossed the rest goes as well!!!
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Ryan..., Schatten, Iltorored and 10 others like this.
  2. allandwf

    allandwf Karting

    Aug 27, 2011
    177
    Scotland UK
    Watching with interest as mine is due in a year. Interesting also to hear md is doing it.
     
  3. 348KYD

    348KYD Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2007
    35
    Bedfordshire, UK
    Full Name:
    Nick
    Seems very reasonable and good they let you in the workshop for cleaning. Be interested to see how it comes out.
     
  4. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    These guys don't hang around.....email video health check received lunchtime today.

    Engine is out, cam covers off and in the post to be powder coated.

    As thought cam seals are leaking so that will be done. Additional things picked up:

    - left hand radiator is missing a few veins. I knew this so that's fine and will get that re-cored myself later this spring.

    - two brake pipes are corroded and need replacing. Not the end of the world, but I do have a receipt from an Indie that was suppose to have replaced those prior to my purchase, and a comment about the use of mole grips (farmers micrometer to you and I)!!

    - one tensioner pully is sweating a lot of grease. This is odd as they are Hills and only replaced 6k miles ago! Still needs replacing.

    - my handbrake shoes are likely to be worn, again I have a receipt that says they were replaced 6k miles ago by above indie. I cant recall that many handbrake turns since I bought her!!

    - my rear brake calliper clips are in upside down. Well that's my fault!

    - and some "tool" has damaged the cam belt covers (another one being sourced at the moment)

    So all in all, not as bad as it could be and just re-enforces my view of a particular indie.

    I'll be speaking to them probably tomorrow to get quotes for the brake pipes, tensioner and handbrake pads.
     
    allandwf and Qavion like this.
  5. PaulK

    PaulK F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2004
    3,669
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I am glad you had a good experience with your dealer. I am someone whom believes in supporting my dealer and they really do take great care of me. I am a little jealous though that you get such good deals on parts and service. That might be something my dealer should incorporate (with a small possibility of success).
     
  6. cactussed

    cactussed Karting

    Mar 12, 2008
    130
    Where is said indie based, might I ask?
     
  7. MikeeB355

    MikeeB355 Rookie

    Dec 7, 2019
    38
    S Wales
    Full Name:
    Michel Bee
    I bought a 355 from Lovett’s end of last year and have to say the process was really slick and the car is living up to my expectations of it, looking forward to a summer of endless sunshine.....
     
    A348W likes this.
  8. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Whilst I won’t be into the dealer to do some cleaning and agreeing some extra work until Monday; they had their apprenticeship open day today (wouldn’t that be an awesome opportunity for a young person?) and it seems my 348 got some extra attention!


    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
    1,411
    London
    Full Name:
    Mark
    there is no doubt that is the full engine out job, no squeezing in the tack space there (as many Indies do)!

    great work and very happy to hear about this experience, I think we all get so used to assuming an Indie is the only way forward for our older cars.
     
    A348W likes this.
  10. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Little update...

    DL kindly invited me to a “dealer clinic”, so a day meeting them all, test driving something new and take the opportunity to do some cleaning/ work on my car etc.!!!

    and a very pleasant day it was too!!

    Bonus was I got some NLA caged bolts for my front roll bar they had stashed away; and found out that you can get the sales man to be very quiet; you just have to get his £300k gt4lusso slightly sideways at the roundabout!! Oops!!!! :)




    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    Ryan..., Nuvolari, Allen S. and 2 others like this.
  11. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,640
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    That is one clean floor for a shop. As clean as a showroom floor where that F40 sits. One day when I have won the lottery....
     
  12. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    30,558
    Calling a penalty
    Full Name:
    Mike
    That looks like the showroom, not the shop
     
    MikeeB355 likes this.
  13. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    So, got the 348 back last week, just in time to be locked down!

    The main dealer, Dick Lovett Ferrari has really looked after me; a real top class in how to do customer service!

    In addition to the major with belts (fixed price at £1,800) and cam shaft seals, valve shims (fixed price £930) and re-powdercoating the valve covers (estimated £400 and came in at around £300 which I think look amazing) I had the following work done:
    - rear handbrake shoes replaced s they were on there limit;
    - 3 brake lines replaced due to corrosion;
    - left hand radiator re-cored (I'd done the right hand side and oil cooler, but didn't get to the left hand side);
    - new Hill tensioners;
    - new cam belt covers, some idiot mechanic had mullered the old ones and a) they needed repairing and b) were rubbing slightly on the cam belts;
    - air con re-gassed;
    - remaining coolant hoses I couldn't get to replaced with silicon hoses;
    - MOT.

    They also took some time to do some paint correction as part of the handback valet which was much appreciated.

    A great experience and I will defiantly be going back next year as the service was great and the rates competitive to indies.

    Now to find an opportunity to drive it as my track day, Monaco Historique F1, Uk Ferrari Owners day and all cars and coffees have been cancelled. That said if that's my only worry life is good; given the dire crap a lot of people are going through right now!!!
     

    Attached Files:

    ernie, Schatten, allandwf and 2 others like this.
  14. 275GTB

    275GTB Formula 3

    Jan 12, 2010
    1,411
    London
    Full Name:
    Mark
    great job, thanks for sharing - enjoy in good health when the world returns to whatever normal, whatever and whenever that will be!
     
    A348W likes this.
  15. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    7,763
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    It seems that Ferrari are finally starting to appreciate that there is a huge, older/modern classic market out there, that they have ignored for decades, that can generate a huge income for them, without being prohibitively expensive to owners.

    It's not that long ago that if you needed parts for a 20 year old + car, you would have to rely on salvaged parts from a dismantled car, because Ferrari no longer made or stocked the parts.

    Today, the factory is re-manufacturing all manner of parts for classic cars that they've ignored for years, and are finally starting to help keep the older cars on the roads.

    Now it seems (in the UK at least), that they have looked at the success of all the independent Ferrari specialists for servicing, and have realised that there's a good business there too, and have taken into consideration that a lot of owners of the older cars don't have the same sort of funds as most of their customers who buy new cars.

    It's always struck me as being a little bit funny (and sad at the same time), that Ferrari were so proud of their back catalogue of models, but didn't really support them once they were past 10 years old.

    One piece of advice I'd give to any owner of an older Ferrari looking for parts for their car:

    Before you go buying that "rare", "hard to find", part off ebay, check with your official Ferrari dealer first (or here: https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/ if you're in the UK [I'm not sure if they accept orders from outside the UK] ). You may well find that they have the parts available now, and for a lot less than the price on ebay (in fact, I suspect a lot of these ebay sellers are buying parts from Ferrari, and then selling them at twice the price to unsuspecting buyers).

    In some cases, I've found that parts from Ferrari themselves, are actually cheaper than from Eurospares & Superformance!
     
    A348W and 275GTB like this.
  16. chopsui

    chopsui Rookie

    Feb 27, 2019
    47
    ~ $2200 for a major service!? And from a Ferrari dealer no less? Why is it so much cheaper in UK?
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,640
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    So ...

    (fixed price at £1,800) and cam shaft seals, valve shims (fixed price £930) and re-powdercoating the valve covers (estimated £400 and came in at around £300 which I think look amazing)

    … for 3,000 sterling pounds, which is about $4500 US, you got an engine out, timing belt, valve adjustment, new fluids, new filter, new spark plugs, new seals.

    The price for comparison is $4500US.
     
  18. malex

    malex Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 5, 2007
    1,113
    Ponte Vedra, FL
    Full Name:
    Mark
    £3000 is just ~$3600
     
  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,640
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Oh yeah, Brexit shot the pound to dollar exchange rate to hell.
     
  20. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Basically yes; sorry!!!

    You do have to be careful to compare like for like on what’s done. And devil is in the detail that I found out about in that fuel filters, transmission oil and check plugs/replace are two yearly so not in a major as majors are odd years.

    I paid extra for the fuel filters (got done on Ferrari tax for those due to the yellow and black box, but lesson learnt. That said point above on parts prices is spot on and what I’ve found as well) and gearbox oil. Plugs were done last year so no need to replace those yet.

    Im guessing that here the main dealers are seeing the expansion of indies, some of whom are starting to charge interesting hourly rates not too far off main dealers. Not forgetting that a a lot of us have a lot of choice. Within 1.5 hrs drive I have 3-4 main dealers and 5 indies; so lots of competition. Couple that with a number of clients with a varied collection of fcars and a desire for their cars to be looked after at one place and ultimately get you back into the brand! (I’ve already put my order in for a 812 gts...to be collected in 5-10 years!!!).

    As to the hours charged, Ferrari says a cam belt change is 14 hours. Looking at the job and talking to the tech I see no reason to doubt that once you have done a few. The extra costs come in in the “whilst you are there” as we all know and love!
     
    chopsui likes this.
  21. yelcab

    yelcab F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    9,640
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    If all you do is remove the engine, change out the timing belt, and putting the engine back in, then I can possibly do it in 2 days. That means you don't do the cam timing, you don't change the valve cover gaskets or cam seals, you don't check and adjust your valve clearance, you don't rebuild or change the water pump, you don't check or change the oil pump tensioner pad, you don't change the main crank seal, the idle bearing, spark plugs or wires, or refinish the wrinkle paint, check or clean the fuel injectors, or even change the gear oil.

    That is just a timing belt change some fluid change, not a major service. But, you do get a new timing belt.
     
  22. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,108
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Correct.

    I have had some of those additional items undertaken as they are scheduled items but in a different periodicity to the cam belt. (Plugs last year, gearbox oil and fuel filters this year for example)

    Other aspects I have had checked and only addressed if there is an issue. (E.g water pump, they were happy with that so no need to replace, similar with other seals with no sign of leaking etc)

    A proportion of the items listed I would not see as routine maintenance items (eg HT leads, injectors, wrinkle paint is just cosmetic, etc) and would only look to replace these items when there was an issue or I was dealing with them because I had the opportunity whilst doing something else.

    As mentioned, whilst UK would appear to be cheaper to maintain an fcar, one needs to be careful to compare like for like. I think our hourly rates are less and we don’t do as much “preventative” maintenance as done in the US. I think we might be a bit more “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. Just my subjective observation!
     
  23. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    7,772
    New England/FL
    Always been a advocate of that. Can't tell you the $1000 I've have with my 308. I've seen 355 "majors" the cost more that the total I've spent on the 308 in 35 years. And every issue as been addressed as needed.
     
    A348W likes this.
  24. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    1,830
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I generally agree but somethings need attention before they fail like the fuel pumps, the rubber liners disintegrate and should be repaired etc etc. Not everything broken or outside of mfg spec is visible. Much of it can be DIY and xref the Bosch parts it can be done cheaply and it kind of a hobby for some I imagine. But that said the number of stripped studs and what not I have run into and had to pull and replace fixing somethg that was not "broke" something speaks to if it ain't broke don't fix it. :)
     
  25. Pangea

    Pangea Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2011
    389
    UK
    Full Name:
    Nick
    If Im reading it right, considering the engine is out , as an extra, I just find £930 probably plus tax for checking valve clearances and changing two shims extortionate, having done my own. Book time for that with engine on the bench is 2.2 hours. 6.4 hours in the car as obviously a lot more difficult. This would be using the correct shim removal tool of course and not removing the cams.
     

Share This Page