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Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by tongascrew, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    I came across 6 B&W pix from a dealer in Italy of an very early notch back Ferrari coupe. These were original photos, presumably copyrighted and sold as the listing has been removed. I am reluctant to post these pix for this reason. The interesting part is that I have been unable to link this car with any I have info on. So here is a description of some of the unique features of the car. The overall look is of an early Stablemente Farina dark colored body four seater type coupe.. Large split front windshield, wire wheels, slightly convex oval eggcrate grill with narrow chrome rim,small short chrome edged scoop near rear of hood,front and rear bumpers split by licence plate mounting, thin chrome strip just under the doors between the wheel wells, small front directional lights directly below head lamps. Maybe the most unusual feature are the small tail lights which are centered on the rear of each fender with small round lenses surrounded by a wide chrome bessel with a chrome strip extenting around the outside of the fender and forward by 12" to 14".The dash has only two large round gages on each side of the right hand drive steering column, then a group of knobs and finally a glove box with what looks like a chrome bar trim pull. The front seat backs fold forward to a bench rear seat.Finally the interior is a dark color and the inside of the doors are trimmed with a standard looking hinged grab handle just below each window and two thin chrome strips extending back 20"to 24" from each of the crank handles. The car was listed as 0137 which it does not resemble.0137 did originally have a split windshield but nothing else really fits. There are several of these early cars with little or no info or pictures of which this could be one. I will be glad to send by regular mail copies of the pictures to anyone interested. It would be interesting to see if we could come up with an ID. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  2. SpyderGT

    SpyderGT Formula Junior

    May 15, 2005
    990
    Vancouver, BC
    Full Name:
    Jon
    If you posted the website name and approximately when the listing was active, we might be able use something like "Wayback" to view an earlier version of the the website before the listing was removed.
    Thanks
    Jon
     
  3. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
    17,960
    San Marino, CA
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    L. Wayne Ausbrooks
    #3 El Wayne, Sep 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    #4 El Wayne, Sep 24, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
    By the way, from the rear three-quarter view, this car is identical to the unidentified Ghia Aigle-bodied car shown on pages 185-187 of Making a Difference by Angelo Tito Anselmi and Marcel Massini. Every detail appears to be the same. Of course, the front end treatment is completely different, but I would be willing to bet that they are, in fact, the same car.

    According to Stefan Dierkes' Ghia Aigle website, the body in the Anselmi/Massini book was probably once fitted to either 0137 or 0195. A front three-quarter image of that car is shown here:

    http://www.ghia-aigle.info/1951_ferrari.htm#unknown

    http://www.ghia-aigle.info/graphics/pics_big/195x_ferrari_01.php

    I won't post the rear image here - I'll just leave that up to Marcel.
     
  5. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    905
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Looks to me like one of the 15 Pinin Farina coupes. The back is very interesting with the chrome strip off the lite.
     
  6. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    If you have a closer look you will soon realize that 212 Inter Coupe - Pinin Farina's first series production model for Ferrari - was a 100% rip-off of somebody elses work!!!

    Knowing how Pinin Farina worked his way up to the top of Italian auto industry, that doesn't really surprice me.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  7. Registro Pietro Frua

    Oct 2, 2004
    32
    Vaihingen, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan Dierkes
    Hi "tongascrew",

    Could you please send me the pics to mail@ghia-aigle.info?

    Thank you,

    Stefan Dierkes
    www.ghia-aigle.info
     
  8. Registro Pietro Frua

    Oct 2, 2004
    32
    Vaihingen, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan Dierkes
    Hi "El Wayne",

    Could you please send me the side view photo (top right) with the coach builders logo in high resolution to mail@ghia-aigle.info?

    Thank you,
    Stefan Dierkes
     
  9. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    Stefan, I'm curious as to whether you agree that these are likely the same car. If so, armed with the registration plate number shown in the first of these six photographs, Marcel should now be able to positively identify the car.
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,583
    This is 0187 EL sold new to Swiss Karl Forster, resident at Stampfenbachstrasse 12 in Zurich, Switzerland. Forster was the official dealer at the time (1952) and received three brand new Ferraris. Dealers in Switzerland usually have very short/low numbers (hence only three digits), ZH = Zurich.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #12 El Wayne, Sep 25, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
    You never fail to impress.


    (Edit: Included for future searchability - 0187EL, 0187/EL, "0187 EL")
     
  12. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
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    george burgess
    Hi, see post #3 for pix. tongascrew
     
  13. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    george burgess
    Hi, Marcel. Hope you had a nice summer. Thanks much for 0187. Your expert assistanve is always appreciated. just one man's opinion tobngascrew
     
  14. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    #15 kare, Sep 25, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2010
    100% the same car. For a very long time it has been obvious that the Vignale Berlinetta style nose was a replacement not belonging to this car originally. First of all it was a terrible match to the rest of the body, which in itself is quite balanced and on the other hand the rocker panel strip had clearly been shortened. It is also pretty understandable that a Michelotti designed Ghia-Aigle might be documented as a Vignale. Seen that happen a few times with other makes too. So finding a serial number was not exactly rocket science.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  15. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
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    george burgess
    Hi Kare, As I started this, I guess, according to you,I am not a rocket scientist which not new news. However as it took M.M. to solve the riddle it seems I am not alone. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  16. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,232
    No it didn't. It only took him to take the message to FC. Best wishes, Kare
     
  17. Stefan Dierkes

    Stefan Dierkes Karting

    Mar 3, 2005
    225
    Vaihingen, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan Dierkes
    The seller answered me on my request, that the photos which he is offering at eBay are prints from 2007. Unfortunately bidders who don't realize that they do not bid for originals, might probably bid unappropriate high prices.

    Anyway, I will try to buy these photos in order to analyse them and document the history of the car and share the photos for free on my website
    www.ghia-aigle.info/1951_ferrari0187.htm.

    So, I ask you to do me a favour and DO NOT BID on these items in order to keep the price affordable and the photos accessible for historic research. I share everything with everone for free.

    Thank you,
    Stefan Dierkes

    P.S. If you really want to overbid me, be so kind and offer me a detailed look on the photos afterwards.
     
  18. Stefan Dierkes

    Stefan Dierkes Karting

    Mar 3, 2005
    225
    Vaihingen, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan Dierkes
  19. ted walker

    ted walker Karting

    Feb 7, 2009
    107
    gloucestershire UK
    Full Name:
    edward walker
    Who is the seller of these photographs ????? as they appear to be MY COPYRIGHT.If you buy them Stefan see whats written on the back of them.
     
  20. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    905
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Good luck Stefan, hope you get the photos.
     
  21. Stefan Dierkes

    Stefan Dierkes Karting

    Mar 3, 2005
    225
    Vaihingen, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan Dierkes
    Yes. I did.
     
  22. Stefan Dierkes

    Stefan Dierkes Karting

    Mar 3, 2005
    225
    Vaihingen, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan Dierkes
    Hello Ted Walker,

    please contact me via mail@ghia-aigle.info.

    Stefan Dierkes
     
  23. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    I e-mailed the seller with this correct s/n. Did they acknowledge? I have bought from this seller before. The have always delivered what they advertised. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     

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