Need advice on value of my 1988 Mondial 3.2 Coupe

I've noticed that for some reason, Mondials seem to do well at auctions. When I had mine (with 45,000 miles), I couldn't get any interest locally for over $25. I traded it in to my F-dealer on a 456, they detailed it and took it to B-J last year and somebody paid $37k for it.

This year, it seems like I've seen several Mondials sell at auctions in the 30s.

 

I wouldn't sell it for less than $21K, max. Yes you will take a hit because the milage is high. However it is a driver, and that is actually better than it being a garage queen.

 

You might want to expand a bit on that one comment: "new engine at 25K" might hurt you more than the total miles: It says it's not a "numbers matching" car ... and implies that it was abused in its youth.

Also, "new brakes" begs questions: New pads?, new calipers?, new rotors? -- If new rotors, then why? (That could imply the difference between a "daily driver" and a "daily beater".)

Before I bought my EVO, I'd have jumped at a hardtop 3.2 -- they're rare, compared to cabs. (How's it handle in snow?) (Heck, I don't have room for the cars I already have.)

 

"Matching numbers" doesn't mean anything in a Mondial or a 3x8. My Mondial had the engine replaced under warranty at 8,000 miles (no idea why, but it was noted in the warranty book) and no one I spoke with cared about that in the least.

It's actually a plus because the engine has fewer miles than the car indicates.

 

Well, matching numbers is like modding the systems or high daily use miles. It may not mean a thing to the proper buyer. But it will chase off some potential buyers, reducing the population you can sell to. (Supply and demand.)

Granted, it won't chase off a whole lot of people that were looking for a mondial in the first place -- but then you have to accept that a lot of those buyers were looking for a "cheap" ferrari.

The people who pay top dollar pay attention to details. (E.g.: An engine that was swapped out because the first owner never changed the oil would imply that the whole system was abused early.)

(Mind you, I'm not implying that there was such abuse: Just indicating why the engine swap would raise questions.)

(Heck, my 328 has "history" (and 60K+ miles) -- it's a driver, not a concourse. But I know that it's not going to bring top dollar if I ever sell it.)

 

I agree on all points, Tom. Less than 30 for a Mondial is a good price. I think if you can wait, you can get your price...if not....

 

Good idea! Seems like lots of folks overpay at these auctions for modern Ferrari's.

 

I still stand behind my assertion that "matching numbers" in a Mondial, or 308, 328, 348-- hell, probably even a 355-- means nothing. In American muscle cars, matching numbers is important because there were usually many engine options, which have a big impact on value. An original Hemi Cuda is worth a lot more than a Cuda with a Hemi put in later.

The Ferraris did not have any engine options. All 3.2 Mondials have the same engine, as do all 328s, etc. So, it really doesn't matter. And, far too many of these cars were built for them to have any historical significance. If the car had period racing history, or something, then it might make a difference. But it doesn't.

Also, engine replacements on these cars when they were new was not that unusual. These were very expensive cars with picky buyers, and Ferrari wanted to keep their customers happy.

My opinion is that the mileage is a much bigger deal, and the engine swap is a non-event. In today's Ferrari market, a car approaching 50k miles is a bit of a pariah, let alone 100k. Not that I feel that way, but it seems to be the way the market looks at cars.

 

I agree there. That's why I was considering one for a winter car. (And at the time, I could get a Ferrari serviced correctly, but not my Toyota.) (I went for the EVO instead, though, for it's capability in New England winters. If I'd known I was going to move south ...)

On the engine, but not necessarily the suspension or drivetrain. (The first owner on my "history" 328 only had it for a year, and likely did no service. Yes, the care the Doctor (2nd owner) gave it for a decade does reduce the impact of that.)

Well, there you go. "engine replaced under warranty" fills in the gaps.

I'm really sorry if I sounded like I was implying you did. I was trying to point out the things that could be read into your wording -- with the presumption that they weren't what was intended.

I guess I'm a bit out of date. I've seen a lot of sloppy word use on the 'net, but I was raised in an era where we got hit with tons of english composition classes, and shades of meaning were part of the language. I guess those days are gone.
(BTW: it's "moot", not "mute".)(Waiter, I'll have the bran muffins and prune juice now.)

If "numbers matching" doesn't mean anything to you, then it means nothing ... to you. But as you note, there are different elements in the market, and some buyers look at things differently. An engine change -- particularly with warranty coverage -- won't chase off many potential buyers, and almost none who are familiar with the marque. It just means you might not get the "gosh look a Ferrari can I buy it dad, huh dad please" type of buyers. (No big loss.)

 

Tom
Looks like the latest edition of Forza did some very effective marketing for you.
I'm thinkin' high 20s to 30 now.
The 3.2s, especially the coupes, are going to come back - just wait and watch.

hang in there, and best of luck.
Russ

 

From the sales arena

Wouldn't touch it with a 10 Ft pole unless is was desperately cheap.
95% of Ferrari prospective clients will not even call with that mileage.

Unforunately, it the car will be bid highest by a dismantler, although mondial coupe body panels are not fast movers. One good/medium hit in an accident is a total with the insurance companies.

So I guess I could be enticed to touch it, with a blade of a SAWSALL.

Tom Shaughnessy
Realist
"need to sacrifice a few, so the strong can survive"


ps Please send the hate mail to me privately at [email protected]

 

It's enlightening to read the threads with garage queens vs. high mileage cars. It would seem to me, it makes common sense, that a high mileage car is worth a heck of a lot less. I know folks argue that garage queens have their potential issues, but the general pouplation as a whole (ferrari buyers included), don't want a high mielage car...

These ferraris' are weekend play things for most folks. And I want my weekend plaything to look brand new, be shiney, and show no wear. Now if I wear it out thats fine by me...but I realize that I will have to sell it at a huge discount...

Say a hypothetical ferrari has 10,000 miles on it...and is worth 40k$. I don't see how a similar car with 70k miles is worth only several thousand less. Quite frankly, it should be worth less than half...

Folks who argue that 70k miles isn't high mileage are nuts (my opinion). On a ferrari this is EXTREMELY HIGH mileage. Most folks view cars as having a limited life span...in the neighborhood of 100,000-120,000 miles (For a jap/usa car). A ferrari has an inferred life span of significantly LESS. They are beautiful cars but wear quickly (interior/suspension/bits/etc).

Purists will jump in and say a car that is "properly maintained" will last a very long time. Yes, a ferrari with superb maintenance ($$$$$) may last 70k miles before bad stuff happens (ie. top end rebuild/tranny rebuild/suspension rebuild/etc). Most ferraris in the sub 50k$ range don't have "superb maintenance." It just isn't cost effective or justified. Hell, if you gave a japanese car "superb maintenance" (ie. Throw 5000$ at it every 5 years, replace the slightest worn part with a new one, never ever drive in the wet/snow), you would get a 1,000,000 miles out of it!!! Ferraris don't have the life expectancy of other cars, and if you beileve otherwise, you are kidding yourself...

I seem to remember a year or so ago Henryk had a nice testarossa for sale, with 60k miles. Was asking 50k$. He had a hell of a time trying to sell it...

Folks who can afford a 50k$ toy, will spend the xtra money to get a nice one...

Now with the mondials, these are affordable enough that you may sell it to a guy off the street, as an impulse buy...

Anything in the high 20's for a mondial coupe, with very high mileage, is a stretch...high teens sounds right.

 

Well, bpu, I think you've nailed the owner psychology. Many Ferrari owners/potential owners think the same way. And, the fact is that there are a lot of low mileage Ferraris out there to choose from, so a high mileage example stands out.

I disagree about the cars not lasting, however. I've heard about plenty of 100k+ (and 200k+) Ferraris running around. There was a guy on this forum with a 105k mile 355 spyder that looked new.

BTW, Tom B-- Shaughnessy is a well known vintage Ferrari dealer who parts a lot of cars out. He knows what he is talking about.

 

I gather 20+ years experience and being inside 2 lampredi engines currently,having my
Muira S engine and series one 250 Cabriolet inside plug engine apart doesn't count.
Production ferrari engines are high school material.

Probably should have done some research before speaking about experience.

Throw the Mondial to the lions!!! Gentlemen get them saws ready!!!


BUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Please read Cavallino Aug04, that's my car on the cover, THAT I WORK ON!


Tom Shaughnessy
Engineer
Pratt Institute '82

 

Tom B,

One good uptight post deserves another

Happy Motoring


Tom Shaughnessy
Ferrari Parts and Sales
San Clemente CA


Buzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Oops, TomB, didn't get the edit in quickly enough

You know my thoughts on these. I am curious what you are asking for it though? My coworker went to show the ad to his wife, and the ad now has 29K on it? It is 22, 23, 29?

Thanks
T

 

Tom: Worth about 15K. Give me a call and I'll take it off your hands. I'm here to help.