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Need help please - Speciale purchase

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by JDINPA, Mar 5, 2020.

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  1. JDINPA

    JDINPA Rookie

    Aug 30, 2017
    7
    Hi all, rejoining the Scuderia after a long hiatus and think I found my ride but need your help. Reached price agreement on this car :

    ZFF75VFA2F0209182

    but I’m a little nervous about the # of owners. Plus no window sticker! :-(

    any help from anyone that knows this car would be very much appreciated. Thanks all
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    10,723
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Come on now

    Are you serious about jeopardising the deal for no window sticker - get real - you should also be worried unless the vendor guarantees the air in the tires is original.....

    And if you want feedback for the number of owners at least give us a hint: one or ten ?
     
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  3. RyanFoH

    RyanFoH Formula Junior
    Sponsor

    Jan 30, 2010
    816
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Ryan Dohogne
    The 458 Speciale mentioned by VIN is listed at the dealership I am employed at so I feel compelled to drop a quick note. While we would certainly be happy to retail another pre-owned Ferrari, I'll try to give my perspective as an overview whether considering a pre-owned Ferrari from me or another store.

    Multiple Owners: CARFAX lists "registration events" and can count them as "owner changes". There is often more to the story and many 3 owner cars are actually 2 owner cars if you closely examine the changes. (We have an Enzo for sale currently where this applies)

    It is natural for any consumer to question the amount of ownership changes. I consider this when trading for a car that I'm not firsthand familiar with. Being around Ferrari 24/7, this would cause me to dive deeper on a California T with many ownership changes more so than a 458 Speciale. For the client base I serve, the 458 Speciale has been a bucket list "must have" for many to enjoy as a bridge car while another Ferrari is on order or until they swap for something else that pops up on the website. As a comparison, I've seen Porsche GT3 RS fall into the same "have to try one out for awhile" category. We just listed a Bianco Avus 458 Speciale that we delivered new. It currently has less than 2000 miles -- and 3 owners. Nothing wrong -- it's just been recycled, this is our business model.

    To make sure a car for consideration was traded back to try another car and not to bail out of problems, look at the warranty repair history. If you see the same issue multiple times … this may be a reason for multiple owners.

    One upside to multiple owners -- the pre-owned car has been fully reconditioned and prepared for resale multiple times. The condition will be evident when you walk up to the car, regardless of dealership.

    Original window stickers: FNA could make a mint employing someone to reprint MSRP labels at $199 a pop... unfortunately this isn't offered. For the past 5 years I've been scanning the MSRP of every new car delivery (and laminating them) to help us out down the line when we trade back for the car. These things help. The Nero Speciale was purchased by our long time client on while on vacation in Newport Beach. We fully supported the purchase simply because we knew we would end up getting it on trade in a short time. Unfortunately, no MSRP label.

    If this helps with our sale, great. We know it will find a home with an enthusiast at one point. Otherwise, the observations are just something to keep in mind for other pre-owned sports cars.
     
    tomc, OSUferrari, mkraft3003 and 2 others like this.
  4. Mighty Joe

    Mighty Joe Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2010
    1,005
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Great info....thanks!
     
    RyanFoH likes this.
  5. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    700
    Buy on condition and spec.

    It seriously puzzles me how so many people will find a great condition car but then balk at the number of owners.

    Number of owners should only be used as a condition indicator when you do not have any other information. Even in that scenario it is a dubious indicator at best. The moment you get additional information such as PPI, or visual inspection, number of owners because largely irrelevant.
     
  6. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2015
    800
    #6 IloveGT, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    I don't think the op is asking the seller input at all here in this thread. Otherwise he would have asked you already. Your desire to answer the questions asked is understandable but I think the op is asking unbiased information from the owners. Your answers could easily be viewed as biased due to the underlying incentive to sell the said car.

    Personally I would be worried when I don't see all the repair and service receipts. How soon the previous owners sold the car after acquiring is more telling than the absolute numbers. I personally prefer one with the original sticker because it shows some diligence by the previous owner. Sometimes small things do matter.

    Back to you, OP.
     
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  7. Carrerarsr

    Carrerarsr Karting

    Sep 29, 2014
    202
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Frank
    2000 mls and 3 owners. I dont get it ?
     
  8. JDINPA

    JDINPA Rookie

    Aug 30, 2017
    7
    Thank you for this post - you are 100% on target re my desire for info from the prior owners or someone here that knows the car. Dealership has a good rep so I'm not worried too much, but I am a stickler and would never discard my WS. Maybe some guys just have too much $ or forgot where they came from but not me. I walked from a prior Speciale that I had agreed to when a very discrete but helpful rep gave me the G2 about heavy track use and associated maintenance repairs. I'm not looking for a garage queen but not looking for something that was beat like a mule either.
    I appreciate all the responses (even the snarky ones). Thanks guys
     
    IloveGT likes this.
  9. JDINPA

    JDINPA Rookie

    Aug 30, 2017
    7
    After reading this post again, I'm retracting my comment about being appreciative of even the snarky responses. Are you really so insecure that you must try to make yourself feel better by trashing others? You must be a real joy to hang around with....
     
  10. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    2,823
    ^You make a good point. Multiple short-term owners can treat the car like a loaner if they already have the exit strategy in sight from when they procure the car. If I knew I was only going to drive the Speciale for 6-12 months, I would treat it a lot differently than if it was a keeper.
     
    IloveGT likes this.
  11. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 2, 2012
    1,565
    Pasadena, CA
    Full Name:
    Dan D
    A personal experience with CarFax and owners.

    as mentioned registration events can cause CarFax to show multiple owners. The vehicle I have was purchased new then went to a llc in a different state. This shows as two owners. The maintenance records, mileage, location of service, was consistent through the years of the first owner. The service location changed, and the frequency of increasing mileage changed, and this was indicative of the second owner. I believe by this time CarFax was up to 3 or 4 owners.

    take your time and do your research on service records, and if available registration history, and compare it to the CarFax for a better read on the number of owners.
     
  12. OSUferrari

    OSUferrari Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2015
    243
    Denver CO
    Full Name:
    John
    Happens more than you think. I own a 3 owner 458. First 2 owners traded in for other Ferrari’s (lots of owners like the next best thing). I tried to buy the car before the 3rd owner (it was traded in on Friday, sales manager sent me photo on Friday - but resold on Saturday before I could see it on Monday. (I was out of town). He had it for 4 months and then someone bailed on his 488 when delivered so dealership called this guy and he took it (guessing for discount off retail due to lost deposit). They called me and I bought it before he even brought car back. So I am 4th owner - all maintenance from day 1 done at my dealer. Car has been rock solid for 2 years and I am keeping it forever.
     
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  13. Ianjoub

    Ianjoub Formula Junior

    Dec 22, 2019
    411
    Homosassa, FL USA
    Full Name:
    Ian Joubert
    I am different I guess. I bought mine, it showed 4 or 5 owners on a 5 year old car. Carfax also showed accident damage. I inspected the car myself. There were no fluid leaks. I found no wrinkled or distressed metal 'under the skins'. I am not worried if it got a new bumper cover, fender, headlight, etc. It looks fine and drives fine. To me it is just a tool.

    Unfortunately, but wasn't a deal breaker, it didn't come with ANYTHING it should have: owners manual, tool kit, spare key, floor mats.... Oh well. By the time it has 100k miles on it, no one else will care either.
     
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  14. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    432
    San Diego, CA
    I had this experience recently too for my 2015 pozzi blu speciale. Carfax listed 2 owners but there was only 1 prior owner who had shifted the car to his corporation. As people have said above it’s more about the condition of car than the number of owners, and that car comes with the 2 year warranty so it’s probably passed the new power.
     
    JDINPA likes this.
  15. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

    Oct 17, 2015
    800
    #15 IloveGT, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
    Car salesman says, " this car was owned by our exquisite clientele who has 10 + Ferrari in the past and just purchased this car to move up the rank to get to the final Halo car. He then registered it to his company in Montana, but he decided to come back to California. We know him very well. Nothing to worry about."

    I kid you not. I personally heard similar stories from 4 different sales person from 4 different dealers when checking out the pista.

    The only time I didn't hear it is Lambo and McL, which just give allocation out without that much games anyway. I wonder how long we be fed this BS story from Ferrari dealers ,which is following the business model of McL anyway.

    By the way, are you being followed by Ryan at all? How did he know you even posted about this car?
     
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  16. JDINPA

    JDINPA Rookie

    Aug 30, 2017
    7
    I’m guessing it was just the VIN # that gave it away & he just hangs out here like us. Dealer has a good rep so no ill will w them. I’m just trying to make an informed decision & honestly a little perplexed by some of the responses here. Really appreciate yours though.
     
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  17. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

    Aug 14, 2017
    700
    This is an over emphasized point. Yes, it is reasonable to assume that a guy who always planned to offload the car will treat it differently. But people need to remember why does "the way someone treat a car" matter. It matters because it may impact condition.

    However, if you see a great condition car, and have qualified and unbiased verification of such condition, then why does the previous owner count matter anymore? It's been completely deprecated with newer and far more accurate information.

    Let's look at the flip side. Let's say you find a car that's never been registered with 0 owners...great! Then you look at the car and it clearly has condition issues. Would you then think, "yeah I can see it has problems with its condition, but its never been registered, so that means its condition is actually good." Obviously not, because the fact that it has 0 owners is no longer a relevant indicator of condition.

    TL;DR: Buy on actual condition and spec.
     
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  18. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

    Dec 20, 2011
    2,823
    When buying a used car I look at spec, condition, mileage and number of owners in that order. Sure a low mileage example may look pristine but what a visual inspection doesnt show is multiple short term owners who never warmed up the engine going WOT from a cold start, used launch control a ton, revved the engine to redline a ton etc.

    PPIs may not show this type of abuse either nor are they 100% sensitive.

    Also a high number of prior owners carries a stigma in the Ferrari market just like high mileage does. A 5 owner car will probably be much harder and take much longer to sell than a 1 or 2 owner car and will need to be discounted more heavily in this buyer's market.

    Look at it this way. Im driving a 2500 mile A5 loaner with the new car smell in immaculate condition. Sure it passes the eye test looking brand new but after a 50-100 other drivers beat on it this past year no way in hell would I buy it.
     
    IloveGT likes this.
  19. AlfistaPortoghese

    AlfistaPortoghese Moderator
    Moderator

    Mar 18, 2014
    3,591
    Europe, but not by much.
    Full Name:
    Nuno
    I think condition, spec and maintenance history are the things to worry about when buying a pre-owned Ferrari. Everything else has little impact, except in limited edition cars.

    Kind regards,

    Nuno
     
    Cigarzman likes this.

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