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Need help with pricing on a 575M...

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by mgmbh1, Mar 12, 2004.

  1. mgmbh1

    mgmbh1 Rookie

    Feb 27, 2004
    16
    Hi all,

    I need all the help I can get. I am currently considering purchasing a 575M, which will be my first Ferrari. I found this particular piece at the link below and was wondering what I should offer the dealer in order to be realistic and get a good deal on the car. What is the market for 575M? Are the dealers having a hard time selling them? This particular dealer has 4 in stock which makes me wonder why? Please take a look at the link below. Any feedback will be much appreciated. Thanks.

    http://www.laautogallery.com/Inv888/Details.cfm?inventoryid=1373358&tempinventorytype=1
     
  2. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Offer him 200k. They will depreciate like the 550 has, and there have been myriad threads on this. Just search.

    --Dan
     
  3. mgmbh1

    mgmbh1 Rookie

    Feb 27, 2004
    16
    I was thinking 200k but then thought might be too low for him to take me seriously? Is the market slow for these cars now? I need him to include transportation as well.
     
  4. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,714
    Gladwyne PA
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    Morrie
    If you can get the car for 200k you doing real well. I think the dealer probably is not going to go much below 220, and even that might be pushing it.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I'd start at 175. These aren't selling. Keep in mind a year from now with milage it will be worth much less. I'd bet 150.
     
  6. rico

    rico Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    578
    Bournemouth
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    I'd go with Napolis. Start around 175/180k The 575m are fabulous cars but the front engined V12s just don't keep their value. The dealer is probably losing a couple of hundred bucks a day just having it in his showroom.

    Have a good look round the car then offer 175k dead... kind of take it or leave it offer. If he refuses go away for an hour or so. Then come back and offer 185k... and try to get something in the offer... extended warranty or something.

    Don't go too much above say 210k otherwise you'll just be losing money. Remember a very conserative markup for dealer cars is around 10-20% so thats 25 or 50k anyway... and the dealer is probably making quite a bit more than that :)

    Good luck and keep us informed.
     
  7. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Jim is right. While I don't think it'll be 150 in a year (2?), 175 probably isn't a bad place to start. The dealer knows full well what the depreciation curve looks like on these cars. Also see if you can't ding him down on the interior.

    That said, a final price of 200 is good for a new car, but be prepared to lose out if you plan on selling them. Personally, the Maranello is a brilliant daily driver, and I'm not worried about what happens if I ever sell mine.

    --Dan
     
  8. mgmbh1

    mgmbh1 Rookie

    Feb 27, 2004
    16
    I would love to start at the low price but am worried that he would tell me to take a hike then I can't even negotiate. He might think I am not sincere in making a purchase?
     
  9. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,714
    Gladwyne PA
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    Morrie
    Keep me inform about what happen, I've been looking for one too, but I'm not seeing the prices everyone else here have talked about. I'd be very interested in what happens.
     
  10. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    Wow, I'm surprised with all the talk of low ball offers so far. I humbly submit that none of those are realistic. My argument is as follows:

    The MSRP for a 2004 575M today is $225K - $235K. Let's assume for discussion purposes, that the MSRP is at the midpoint of this range for the vehicle that you are looking at, or $230,000, since it's not disclosed on the site. From what I can tell, the only thing that I could tell that separates the vehicle from a brand new one is that it's probably got a 100 extra miles. So for all intensive purposes, it's new.

    An offer of $175,000, as some here have suggested, represents a discount to MSRP of 24%, and a discount of 30% to the ask of $250K. Nobody is going to sell you a car at that sort of discount, much less somebody that has a brand spankin' new 575M. To me that's just craziness, and a great way to go out of business.

    In my opinion, if you'd like to be thought of as a serious buyer, ask for a discount of 10% to MSRP, based on (i) the technicality that the car really isn't "new" (although we all know it is), and (ii) the fact that there is more supply than demand, an argument that others have also postulated. In other words, I would start with a bid of $207K (10% discount to MSRP / 18% discount to Ask), and be prepared to pay up to $215K (7% discount to MSRP / 14% discount to Ask). If you end up in this range, I still think you would be getting a good deal.

    If you get the dealer to sell you a brand new 2004 575M that is advertised for $250K for $200K, you're a much better man (or at least negotiater ;)) than I ever will be.

    Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
     
  11. 575Mike

    575Mike Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2004
    1,698
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Michael
    These cars are simply beautiful and a blast to drive. But they really scare me in terms of depreciation. My brother just purchased a 2003 575 with 1800 miles on it for $174,500. It's an F1 car w/shields, red brake calipers and rear leather shelf. He thinks it was a great deal. I don't. There a lot of cars on the market right now and no one is rushing to buy a 550 or a 575. If you buy this car, plan to live with it for awhile or know going in you'll have to bite down hard when you sell it or trade it.

    By the way, I could have purchased a 500 mile black car from Miller Motor Cars last August for $190K. I believe they unloaded it at that price. Again, that's a lot of money.

    There is a black car on eBay right now at Westmont Porsche and I bet they would let it go at a good price.
     
  12. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
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    Steven
    i see it this way, it is a BUYERS market right now and they are sitting on $$$$$$ inventory. $175k... $190k MAX!!! If these "new car buyers" decided to sell back their 575M, the buyer took the loss. If the dealers did a wink-wink nudge-nudge buy back to sell over MSRP, let said dealer get their just "rewards".

    Enjoy the Drive,

    Steven R. Rochlin

    PS:pS: Look at 550 prices and how they have DIVED downward. Odd are the 575 is sure to follow. And don't get me going about used Maserati prices. Am waiting a few more months to possibly buy one at around $40k because they, like Jaguar, are dropping like a stone :)
     
  13. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    For a six-month old car, with low mileage and all the accessories, that's a good deal. New cars depreciate fast. Always did, always will. That's the price you pay (pun intended) for buying something under warranty and with that new car smell. Put another way, your brother got 30% off list for a six-month old car -- not a bad deal in my book. Will it depreciate more. Absolutely, but that doesn't mean the deal is not good now.

    BTW, the fact that he paid $175 for a MY2003 lends support to my argument that it would be next to impossible to get a MY2004 for anywhere close to this price.
     
  14. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
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    Steven
    Ghost,

    A good buying formula is this, buy at the very end of the year (mid December, close deal around December 29th). Trust me, dealers HATE taking the new year hit on inventory :)

    Now IS NOT the time to buy a sports car IMHO. But hey, that's just me.

    Enjoy the Drive,

    Steven R. Rochlin
     
  15. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    With you on this Steve. As it is a good idea to buy towards the end of the month, when dealers close their books. But since I'm not the one currently looking, it's really up to mgmbh1 to decide if he wants to wait another 8 months to purchase.
     
  16. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
    9,842
    Orange County, CA
    I'd maybe slow down a bit and try to shop an '03 for the stated $175Kish. Then if you really want the new one, figure out if it is trully worth the additional $25K+. Use the used figure($175Kish) as a reference point to grind the dealer for the new one. I'd go for saving the bucks on a slighlty used car that you'll enjoy as much. You'll need to pick up the shipping costs if you get a great deal.

    Based on my experience, it seems like you hear about someone buying a car for this great price like there all over the place. It's funny how it never seems to work out exactly that way when you're ready to buy. That's just my experience.
     
  17. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    My thoughts exactly. ;)

    If somebody has bought a 2004 575M with 150 miles on it for $175K - $190K, please let us know. We'd love for you to weigh in.
     
  18. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,350
    Texas!
    Here's my take on this.

    1. This is a "delivery miles" new car that a Ferrari dealer is fronting to a buddy in the hopes of moving it. You see this all the time with 360 Spiders where Ferrari/FNA prohibits their dealers from selling above MSRP. What happens is that a dealer "sells" the car to buddy, who then sells it on a MSO for whatever markup he can get. I have been told that, on occasion, the buddy will actually give the dealer a present for selling him the car at sticker. Imagine that.

    2. In the case, though, the game is being played in reverse. That is, a dealer has not been able to move the car so he "sells" it to Buddy, who then hawks the car.

    3. Buddy is not going to care what you offer for the car because he doesn't have anything to lose on the deal. So don't worry about offending Buddy. In fact, I'm amazed that you would be worried about offending any car dealer. These guys are the original Teflon men. They don't care what you think of them, and they don't care what they think of you. All they care about is, "What's it gonna take to put you in a car today?" Remember, while a Ferrari is all about the passion, at the end of the day, it is just a car.

    4. I agree with Napolis on a starting offer of $175k. Buddy will just laugh at you, but so what? Buddy will call the dealer and tell him that he got a low ball, but he thinks that you'll be back. And, guess what, Buddy is right because you'll probably call him the next day, and the day after that, and the day after that...

    5. Yes, a new 575 is going to depreciate, like Napolis put it, "Keys falling out of a Lear jet." A new Ferrari is not exempt from the "50% in 5 years" depreciation rule any more than a Honda. Indeed, the depreciation probably will be more like 40% in 3 years. Moreover, the replacement for the 575 is just over the horizon, which may or may not make a new 575 depreciate even faster.

    Pls don't take this as 575 or Ferrari bashing. It is just reality. I don't care what Alan Lambo says, a new Lambo or Porsche will depreciate as fast or faster than a Ferrari. A buddy of mine paid $190k for a GT2 about a year ago. Today, he would be lucky if he can get $140k for the car. A great car, no doubt, but they all depreciate except for the truly exotic.

    So take your time, get your bankroll ready, and you will be able to drive one hell of a deal. Then when you get the car, do as Herr Doody sez, "Drive it like you stole it."

    DrTax

    ps Don't get the F1. A Maranello has so much torque that the last thing it needs is a auto shifter.

    pps A sales manager of a high-end car dealership recently told me that the Internet is ruining the car bidness. Wonder why?









     
  19. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    I guess a bit off the point, unless I missed something, the description of the car is almost useless. It looks like an F1, modular wheels, painted calipers, Daytona seats, but there are many other options that I can't assess - rear shelf? FHP? Etc.
     
  20. 575Mike

    575Mike Formula 3

    Mar 11, 2004
    1,698
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Michael
    I guess it depends on the definition of a "good deal". It's that my paradigm has simply changed. New cars generally depreicate right out of the box -- the Enzo, Ford GT and other cars excepted. I've just gotten so weary of being beaten up by losing big when I buy a new car that I've become, more or less, anti new car. For example, it pains me to admit I was one of the fools that paid over list for a GT2; and to make matters worse I traded my Fiorano Spider for a car that wasted no time dropping in value like a boulder. That car is one of many in my storied career of losing big when buying new. So I try to buy cars which hold their value. Although I'll probably end up breaking this self imposed vow as I love cars, including the 575M. I'm quite adroit at talking myself into buying a car I like, new or used.
     
  21. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    There was a 03 575M a few months ago on Ferrariads asking price 175,000. I think it had like 3000 miles.
     
  22. bobafett

    bobafett F1 Veteran

    Sep 28, 2002
    9,193
    Mike: misery enjoys company! :D

    --Dan
     
  23. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    Your point is well-taken Mike. And I think we're saying the same thing: new cars will depreciate. Ergo, if you're willing to wait a bit, you get a much better "deal" on a slightly used car -- after somebody else has taken the hit on depreciation. That being said, if you want to buy into an (almost) new car -- ie., one that is still continuing to depreciate steeply -- your brother probably got as competitive a "deal" as possible.
     
  24. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    if you really want a Maranello, look at older cars. there's just no reason to pay top dollar (and auto gallery is WILDLY likely to hold out for top dollar on a new car like this) for a new car that you didn't get to do up to your specs.

    the older 575s will sell at a much steeper discount with more realistic pricing (ie: not as annoying a process).

    doody.
     
  25. ghost

    ghost F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    9,836
    Singapore
    What he said.

    Which is also what I said. ;)

    But you can still try offering $175K. :D:D:D
     

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