new 02's, Hperflow

So what is to be said if I go back to the factory cats and never see a cat efficiency code again...?

WHEN my cats were taken off (I had NO cat efficiency codes at the time), the left one was COMPLETELY HOLLOW. WHy didn't I get any cat codes then?? It didn't become hollow instantly....

Not trying to be argumentative as I am not mechanically inclined, but I am a little curious...

 

It is. I am not completely convinced that the later generations were not purposely dumbed down versions of the earlier software to compensate for other issues. FNA would only supply the 004's if we were on the edge of a three strikes situation, then it came NC.

It is good to hear the metal matrix cats are available at reduced pricing. With CARB starting to pay attention to visual inspections I would imagine they will be a hot ticket item in years to come.

 

I can only guess that the stainless mesh used to support the matrix was bunched up and deflecting exhaust flow from the O2 sensor or the sensor itself was plugged up with debris and giving false low readings.

Only guessing. Much on the same line as those running test pipes and stand off's for the O2 sensor.

 

Can you elaborate on the different cats (#2 & #3) listed?

I went to Ricambi and looked up the catalysts for the 5.2 model: three seperate catalysts are listed

1)Lists Catalyst for USA & Cda- $4270 each side or $8500. pair

2)Lists Catalyst for NON USA & Cda NON catalyzed cars BUT APPLICABLE TO CHALLENGE CARS
-$1397. + 1373 each side or $2800. a pair (is this what you are referring to? will these pass a california smog test? )

3)Lists Catalyst for NON USA & Cda & Challenge NON catalyzed cars- $740. per side or $1500. pair (what are these? will these pass an emission test in california?)

 

Are you sure the OE cat has a metallic matrix as the previous matrix for the 355 was ceramic?
Are these catalysts effective in north american emission testing?

 

There is indeed a big sale from FNA on the OEM F355 cats. The FNA part number is 70001706, and full MSRP is $2667 for the pair (valid until Dec 31).

 

Daniel, if that is the full MSRP, what will you sell me (or us) a set for?

I will most likely be selling my Hyperflows if anyone is interested (They have about 2k miles on them).

PM is necessary.

 

IF I go back to factory cats, WHAT will be different about my 355?

Will it sound different? I have a very loud Quicksilver SuperSports Exhaust, which is why I'm doubting I will hear any sound difference.

Will I seriously notice less power??

 

Just bought these. Gonna give them a try and see if they work.

There is no permanent modification to install these, right...?

(Thanks, Dave H from Seattle! )

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170575325132&viewitem=

 

I think those are the wrong ones.
The ones you want should have a crush washer to get a good seal. The eBay ones look to have a conical section.

Also, you only need two, for the rear O2 sensors only.


BTW.... I'm the O.P. of this thread.

When I 1st posted it was just after the drive home from the service department that installed the Hyperflows and new sensors when the light came on.
Later in the week I reset the OBDII with my scan tool and have driven quite a bit and the warning lamp never re-appeared. I still have the spacers sitting on my desk, but it looks like I might not need them after all.

JD

 

Crap....that was the link from an FChatter who knows his stuff. I already bought 'em.....

 

You want it LEGAL too?

Windsock is talking about a Cat that Ferrari came out with in late 98/early 99 as I remember. I don't remember any TSB's announcing this at the time, I just remember finding them on a car getting warranty repairs I was doing, maybe he will remember. Had Ferrari come up with those Cats a few years earlier in the game there would be far more intact engines on the road now, not a bad product at all. The statement "original design Ferrari catalyst" is a little confusing as the "original" was ceramic matrix... semantics, as I did see these on some of the last 355's delivered.

Did Ferrari have the emissions part go through all of the CARB certification required to make them "NA Approved" at the end of a production run? Doubtful in my mind, they had a habit of taking the "ask forgiveness" route as there were far less obstacles and hurdles to jump. A move on their part I completely agree with and understand, they were jumping through the hoops at the same time on the 360 with those design Cats already. As long as there is a tag with a Leaping Lizard on it with the word Ferrari..... assumption is usually good enough to pass visual. Windsock/Daniel, does that part number come listed as "NA Approved"? Legal? Don't know but Windsock / Daniel can answer that. Effective? Yes, quite.

Will they fix a car with problems? Nope, cats don't fix problems, they just deal with what they are fed and if that isn't out of line they survive and give the rear O2 sensor a signal that they are working. They are a dumb component and have no effect on the engine management controls.

Cats are the very last thing that gets put on a car only after everything else is verified to be in completely proper working order, they will be the final judge of ones workmanship. Put them on a 7 cylinder with SD ECU's unplugged and you will have an bright expensive Christmas ornament hanging off the back of a car.

 

Bingo.

Did the HF's "Fix themselves"? Doubtful.

 

It's so difficult to know what to type on this forum these days, since I know who reads it.

Fox Mulder and Dana Scully were right.

 

I'm on their Christmas card list.

 

WOW!!! There is a whole lot bein said here and some points need clarification. This subject is complex and many many legal issues are involved.

I can remember approx. 5 years ago talking with the person at EPA who was responsible for going thru all data for "FERRARI only" imported vehicles....he made the final decision whether or not ANY new vehicle from Ferrari got into the USA.

Any component involved in emissions has to be covered by the extended warranty..because Ferrari put the aux. air rails on the headers these are covered by the ext. warranty even if Ferrari says they are not...the FEDS will step in when notified and trump Ferrari's denial to a customer with failed headers.

Any changes with the emissions control/components which vary from the initial submittal which was used for that specific vehicles approval, has to be recertified. This includes catalytic converter construction and any changes/remapping of the ecms. Ferrari may make changes and bypass EPA but there are some pretty major fines and leaves Ferrari open for liability from the customer. Just remember that we are dealing here with the original mfg. of a complete car and not aftermarket suppliers.

The net result of any/all changes may not change what comes out of the exhaust pipe but the burden of proof lies with the mfg. and sufficient data/testing from the mfg. has to be submitted in writing to the EPA., and then these parts/changes upon approval can be imported and made available thru the mfg.'s authorized dealer network.

As for the state level(CARB)...whole different set of rules tacked on to the primary EPA certification rules. As for being turned down upon visual inspection of emission components? May be just a minor glitch which is totally negated when aftermarket components are submitted for CARB approval which is indicated that any parts of the emissions system must be submitted for approval/certification or it winds up in the "for offroad use only". Yes, I know this is a pita for aftermarket mfg's but it makes the parts acceptable and legal for sale in those areas. If you don't like the rules then sell parts with a disclaimer that says not for use in CARB areas.

This is my take of the whole rats nest.

Maybe someone else in the legal field can debunk my statements.

 

Which frankly is a damn shame and one reason for the very high cost of these cars and the lawyers being the only ones that profit. Ferrari has brilliant engineers that are able to make running changes to fix glitches very quickly and efficiently if/when they choose to do so. The red tape (some being absurd and beyond any common sense) put up by the Feds makes doing so nearly impossible and at enormous costs.

This market lives on cutting edge technology which doesn't happen without set backs, it is expected due to the very nature of the business. That said, there are valid reasons why the Fed's built the hurdles so high. It's a balancing act played out on a very fine knife edge with much going on behind the scenes. These Federal requirements cut both ways and are as big a PITA for the manufacturers as the after market. Many a good idea was put on the shelf and will never see the light of day because of the costs involved to become compliant yet are completely and fully functional in practice. Its a shame the ego's involved are so big because together as a joint effort so much could be done to further any given marque.... instead we battle for no good reasons.

 

Point of clarification on Bruce's post and David's earlier post. Here in California, the Air Resource Board (CARB) Exempt Order (E.O.) system applies to aftermarket replacement parts that affect vehicle emissions, not to OEM parts. If the OEM supersedes an earlier part number to a newer version, they do not file for a CARB E.O. number. You can go to the Air Resource Board site and see a list of every EO number ever issued. There are no OEM replacement parts on that list.

However, when an OEM develops a new or replacement system that was not part of the original vehicle's design, they do need to go through the application and independent testing process to receive an E.O. number from CARB. An example of this would be the high flow air intake (aka filter on a stick) and supercharger kits offered by Toyota's TRD parts division.

Now back to the original discussion...

 

YES this is soooo true. When dealing with gov agencies you can throw logic and common sense out the window. Personalities and ego's definitely cause problems.

I wish things would change as there are many small companies that make better products but can't compete due to the red tape and cost involved in jumping thru all the hoops.

Sad to say but this will only get worse as the gov agencies grow in number and usually with way to much power and authority.

Just remember that they always know what is in our best interest...ha ha ha...lol

 

I know when I get my car smogged, I'm told to "heat up those cats" to make them work most efficiently. Is that the problem with the hi-flow cats and exhaust-not enough heat retained in the cat to properly catalyze the fumes? Could that be mitigated by a reset with hot or cold cats?

 

It is not permanent, but understand that is not "fixing" anything, it is only spoofing the Motronic, because it is moving the post cat O2 sensor out of the exhaust stream. It should eliminate the "check engine" and P codes for low catalyst efficiency. But you lose the ability to monitor catalyst function, without removing the spacers first.

I also believe this is against federal law to make this modification, even in your case, where you have properly functioning catalysts.

 

Well, I am comfortable with knowing Mark went over my car completely and said that there wasn't any known problems. So, putting these on is exactly what I'm looking for.

 

Thank you, your correct. I was thinking one thing and typing another... simple minds should stick to simple subjects, so much for me multi tasking.

 

No worries, our State motto should be "California - we just HAVE to be different."

 

IMO there is no legal 355 in california that is running aftermarket cats. I don't think there is a single non-oem header or cat with an approve EO number. It would be great to be wrong on this one. That said if I was in need of cats I would be quietly placing 300 cell metalic cat cores stealthfully contained in my OEM Ferrari cat packaging. All you would need is a welder and some minor cutting tools. I also believe that an aftermarket header could be made to look OEM with similar minor work. The shiny nuggets made by hyperflow are not conducive to "no questions asked".