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NEW MID ENGINED V6 (LITTLE BROTHER)

Discussion in '296' started by ajr550, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    It certainly wont be crap, I am sure it will be a great car but could it be better? I think the comments are taken out of context, most everyone here is a Ferrari owner and fan its just we dont want to settle for good enough.
     
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  3. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    Precisely, lets wait till June 24, everything should be answered by then.
     
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  4. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Agree Ferrari doesn't make crap. The car will no doubt be a very strong performer. The doubt is whether the design of the car has improved over SF90 and whether all of the elements befitting a proper driving machine are there or, if any of the elements have been further watered back in any way as has been found the case in most of the new models.
     
  5. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    The chance that the hybrid car would be anything less than highly capable and attractive would be about zero. The question will be how satisfying and how attractive.
     
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  6. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    You are correct. Size and shape make a difference. I am huge and I have Senna seats. It’s a strange and unusual combination. If you saw me, you would think no way in hell that dude shoehorns himself into Senna seats…and yet I do. Recently, one well known forum member’s wife asked me incredulously, “You fit in a Ferrari?!”
     
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  8. Jason B

    Jason B Formula Junior

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    How FERRARI Became So Famous & Successful - The History of FERRARI (+ 7 Short Facts)

     
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  9. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    Well then you must be a big dude. For me the P1 seats in the 765 are very comfortable - and hold you better - and more so than the Pista seats which I don't mind even if they are a bit boney. But overall the 765 is equally as comfortable as car to drive in comfort mode even though it feels more race car in general.... which I also prefer. But I still really like the Pista even though it does off second best in most areas.
     
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  10. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    6’6” 265lbs…although depending on how heavy I am going in the gym I can sneak up to 275-280lbs before I come to my senses and taper back down. It’s tight. Not Viper ACR tight, but tight nonetheless. The Senna seats are like a vise on my hips and shoulders.
     
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  11. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
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    Are we really debating the 765LT vs. the Pista?

    Having been at the track with quite a few 765LTs this past weekend, alongside many other impressive cars (Bugatti Chirons of every kind [yes Chiron with an 's'], Sennas, Senna GTRs, Viper ACR, SF90, 570GT4, Speciale, GT2RSs, GT3RSs, GT3 Cup, on and on), I can confidently say the 765LT is the clear winner on track vs. the Pista.

    And yes, I own a Pista that I actually try to drive.

    I won't comment on looks because to each their own, but the 765LT wins on track due to the ridiculous grip and downforce. It's just not something the Pista can compete with. I wasn't there the day before when the SF90 took to the track, but feedback from a few drivers was that the SF90 (driver) was just an awfully inexperienced and slow. Unfortunately that meant for lack of a good read on how it could have fared.

    There's a lot of people that go on and on about track times, but ultimately, everyone uses their car for their own purpose. If a Pista does it for you at the track, like it does for me, then enjoy it. If it's the 765LT, then more power to you. Either way, you're going to get your ass handed to you by a stock Senna anyway.
     
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  13. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Best thing to do is own both. :)
     
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  14. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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    #2761 Shadowfax, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
    Yep exactly. But id agree with Secret that at the track the 765 owns the Pista. The 765's in our group stand as proof positive there. That said the Pista is still very quick and very capable on circuit when driven but in the equivalent (driving) situation Pista will get its ass handed to it by 765 every time and that's a fact from what Ive both seen and experienced. I also think it's more than just down-force going on that's behind the spankings so i wouldn't pay too much attention to any suggestion that its just one thing Mclaren is ahead of Ferrari on. It's the whole package of 765 that's doing it and not just one thing and for anyone to suggest otherwise is having a complete lend of themselves.. And this is where Ferrari really need to pull their socks up in their new models and not get so focused on servicing the manbag set of customers just because these types don't know any better or even care for that matter.
     
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  15. F140C

    F140C Formula 3

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    I mean no offense to people willing to discuss the benefits of carbon tubs and the overall performance of each model, but graeme's idea isn't a bad one.

    Personally, I prefer to read Albert's valuable inputs, ingegnere's detailed analysis of the spy shots published so far or look at isot's incredible renders (just a few examples), all of which are more on-topic than anything else.
     
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  16. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie
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  17. red passion

    red passion Formula Junior

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    It's not like that there aren't already threads about the topic. For example this one:
    When are we going to see carbon tub Ferraris? | FerrariChat

    However it's not always that black and white, at least the start of the discussion IMO was very relevant to the Little Brother topic. There has been a nice dynamic in the discussion that probably wouldn't have been possible in an isolated/dedicated thread.
     
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  18. babgh

    babgh Rookie

    Dec 21, 2016
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    It might not make sense to you but what does make sense is that mclaren needed to make the 650S in order for them to be better(in performance stats, in media hype and in marketing) than the 458(2009-2015 6 years mind you) which is the 1st iteration of the V8 chassis after f430. I won't base it by year as it would be stupid not to remember the history of the model when the 12c(2011-2014 only 3 years) came out and on how amusingly short its lifespan that it became the 650s(2014-2016 2 years only but gen 2 already of the mp4-12c) for the main reason that mclaren is losing to an older car so they need to make a new one. Also in terms of MY the 675LT coincides with 488GTB which is a base model that is why the 720S(2017-present again a base model) literally doesn't have a direct competitor so the journalists made an excuse to compare the 488 Pista to it. The comparison I made for the 720S against the SF90/LB is because it is an indirect successor to the V8 non hybrid platform but the most reasonable competitor of the 720S is an F8 Tributo(again a base model).

    Don't get me wrong I like the mclaren 720S it's just that it's direct ferrari competitor is either a bit behind on release dates or mclaren is just keen on making a new model every 2-4 years.
     
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  19. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    No, those of us who are reasonable aren’t. There is a group of members here who can’t accept that a Ferrari is the best performance car in any head to head match up in every category. Not accepting and appreciating the reality of modern Ferrari for what it is.

    The reasonable among us all state that 765, in terms of pure performance, blows Pista away. If that’s your only criteria then great. If you are more towards usability, luxury, beauty etc. then Pista will fit your needs more.
     
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  20. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula 3

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    Ok so you drove a 720s for a some hours and want to discuss it’s virtues against owners like me and others (that by the way also own Ferraris).
    I feel like we are taking about a certain type of surgery with surgeons and then come a few carpenters saying they also have experience and actually then surgeons have much to learn from them.
    Cognitive dissonance is strong in this forum.
     
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  21. Coincid

    Coincid F1 Rookie
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    Lets be frank- you are a bear of a man. How you can get comfortable in these 2 seater super cars is an act worthy of Houdini. Your love of these cars has caused you to accept this circumstance and to your credit, you make the best of each situation to make it work. It truly exemplifies your passion for high performance cars. BTW- The 765 is available with touring size P1 seats. Most, who are average size, find the Senna seats uncomfortable and that is the reason I opted for the regular P1.
     
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  22. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Your post while factually correct lacks context. 12c/650 was a debacle for them and the reason for that was this was their first production car. The model cycles have settled and the 720 replacement is not due till 2023- 5 years after 720.

    Now with the Artura being the first hybrid that is not a hyper car, we will see if the LB is it’s direct competitor or if LB is slated above Artura. We don’t know if LB has more or same hp. 8 days to go before LB reveal and we will find out much more where it slots in the pecking order.
     
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  23. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Rookie
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    Artura, from a pure pricing standpoint, is more of a 911 TTS competitor. I think it's to compete slightly down-market from the LB (can't wait for a real name). The LB and 720S replacement will be square in each others sights. Mclaren doesn't really have anything to go against the SF90, and nor does anyone else for that matter until Lambo release the hybrid Aventador replacement that hopefully normal sized human males can fit in.

    Curious to see what on earth Mclaren do for the 720S replacement. Will it necessitate 4wd? 765 and SF90 are already near dead even as far as straight line speed. Will 720S replacement target Chiron type acceleration? I can't wait to find out.
     
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  24. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

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    It's hard to imagine a car that can out-accelerate the 765 but the 720 replacement will move the game on even further..... and likely monster the SF90 by being ~500 pounds lighter (real world weight, not claimed). An electric front axle seems like a foregone conclusion.
     
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  25. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ
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    What he said ^^^^^
     
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  26. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Hey guys- this is a discussion board. People are discussing various topics related to LB here. The current trend in the discussion is whether the LB should have a carbon tub or not. Also whether Ferrari with its new introductions is not putting its best foot forward with regards to performance, hence the comparision to different brands. None of this prevents anyone from posting something else of relevance to the thread. If you want to discuss detailed analysis, spy shots etc by all means do so. No one will complain.
     
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  27. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
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    My opinion/prediction:

    Artura, which is replacing the wildly successful 570S, will be very fast on track, and it will feel like an incredible supercar on the road with the hybrid drivetrain. McLaren has had a reasonable amount of seat time with the hybrid system in the P1, with an additional 4-6 years of studying aging on the platform while they were designing the Artura. When I had my 570S, I was easily reaching high confidence levels with it on track with P-Zeros (not even Trefeo Rs), and the fun factor was very high in that car on the road. While I knew it wasn't the fastest out there, the experience felt like you were getting into an exotic super car, as it was truly an event to open the doors, fire it up, and hit the road.

    LB, which is sounds like it's creating a new segment for Ferrari, if based on the 458/488/F8 chassis or the Portofino/Roma chassis, will likely be aimed at thrills on the road than on track. Even the marketing material seems like it is not aimed at convincing customers that the car will break any records, but more so that it will be very fun to drive. Personally, I think that's great, and it takes the pressure off of development $ going into things that are meaningless to customers on the road. If more development focus went into making LB a fun to drive car that also happens to be beautifully sculpted, sounds amazing, and keeps up with most other supercars on the road, then they'll have a winner.

    IMHO, over the years of canyon carving, I've come to appreciate cars that have power levels matched to realistic road speeds and power delivery in symphony with exhaust tones throughout the rev range. Of the recent cars I've owned, I felt that, in order from better to best, the 570S, Lusso, 991.1 GT3, and 458 Speciale all did that very well. With my new exhaust set up, while the exhaust tones are much improved and the power delivery very linear, the power levels, as most without an inferiority complex would agree, are definitely beyond what is usable and needed to enjoy public roads.

    Also as many have posted above, Ferrari fans (like myself) fall in love with the dream of driving their beautiful Ferrari on track. While some (also like myself) actually do use their Ferraris, for most, reality is often very different than the dream. For example, Range Rover owners dream of their cars hitting the snowfallen roads, rocky terrains, or sandy dunes, but most never so much as change it out of the Auto Terrain setting. The biggest bumps most Range Rovers see is a pothole, speed bump, or those annoyingly tight Starbuck drive thrus where they tend to curb the rear wheel. The Pista and soon the 812 Competizione are much the same. None were really bred to truly be track vehicles for their customers; instead, they were made to fulfill the dream.

    TLDR: I think the LB could be a real winner for many Ferrari dreamers out there
     
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