New (to me) 2005 F430 F1 Issues- need help | FerrariChat

New (to me) 2005 F430 F1 Issues- need help

Discussion in '360/430' started by fixitchris70, May 2, 2016.

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  1. fixitchris70

    fixitchris70 Rookie

    May 31, 2013
    5
    I have a 2005 F430 with an F1 that was bought a couple weeks ago 18k miles and about 70% clutch life left. I bought it from Lamborghini Palm Beach thinking I could rely on their assessment of the car so I didn’t travel down from CT to drive it (first blunder). On the first day I received it I took the car out for a 20-30 minute “Spirited” drive and then tried Auto mode and the acceleration was extremely flat and had prolonged shifts (almost seems to deaccelerate before shifting). At one point is became so sluggish that I thought it was going to stall and the F1 warning light came on and the car shifted into neutral (not sure what color light and was not flashing). The car would not allow me to shift out of neutral. Eventually I tried shutting the car off and restarted it and was able to get it into first and drive home on manual mode. During the ride home it seems like the gear indicator was out of sync with the actual gear I was in and a slowdown warning light came on.

    Sent it to Miller Motor Cars last week and they said no codes were thrown in the system and no issues from their inspection, they drove it twice for at least 20 minutes and couldn’t replicate the problem-not sure what conditions they drove it under. Picked it up Saturday got stuck in stop and go traffic where I’m sure the car was heating up. The car was fine initially (was shifting- not in auto mode) but after 20-30 minutes it didn’t seem to want to down shift or upshift. Sometimes it would go other times it would sit in neutral. I had the yellow slow down light come up at times. When I finally got about 1 ½ hrs into the ride home traffic opened up however I was never able to get it into 6th. I would shift up and the rpms would drop for a few seconds then they would go back up and the gear would stay in 5th. When I got off the highway and on a short side road I was able to shift up and down the lower gears that I was having trouble with before (didn’t get a chance to try for 6th). I’m wondering if it worked again because the open road allowed things to cool down and in stop and go the pump motor heats up and causes problems.
    After spending almost 3k on unrelated stuff I don’t want to waste another day and the money and figured maybe it’s something I could do myself. I’ve read things about the F1 pump motor and relay replacement (500+50 for the relay), clutch sensor/gearbox sensor (550 on ebay), and the upper gearbox electromagnetic sensor (120 on ebay). I know the pump motor is do it yourself work- are the sensors? Could it just be the pump relay? It seems like it would be cheaper to replace all of these myself than getting just one replaced at a dealer. Any thoughts as to the issue? Could any of these occur without throwing and leaving a code in their diagnostic system? I’ve also heard about issues with clutch position sensors and speed sensors also- I can’t figure it out.
    Note: There was no warranty with the car but LPB hinted at the fact they would try to work something out with me once solved. The problem is that I just dropped the money to get the car, had one repair bill and don’t want it to cost me another 20k in hopeful/test solutions to solve the issue to get 50% back if I’m lucky from the LPB when I could buy the parts for a fraction of the cost of my 50% share and do it myself (if I could diagnose the problem:). I have to call both the dealer and the repair shop today. Thanks for your help.
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,314
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    One check you have not mentioned is the hydraulic fluid level - general experience and advice here seems to be that throwing parts at a problem is no substitute for proper diagnosis
     
  3. fixitchris70

    fixitchris70 Rookie

    May 31, 2013
    5
    Thanks for the reply. I believe miller motor cars checked the fluid level and will double check with them. I also forgot to mention that there is no clutch slippage once in gear.
     
  4. fahlmanb

    fahlmanb Karting

    May 14, 2014
    69
    Mount Pleasant, MI
    Full Name:
    Brad Fahlman
    #4 fahlmanb, May 2, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had v. similar problems with my 360 last year (do a search for my posts; the car spent more time at the dealer than my house!). Just as in your situation, my dealer was never able to find any codes or replicate the problem at their service center. After many hours of investigation and road testing, mine was probably a combination of a bad F1 pump & a pressure switch.

    Fyi, I am attaching the invoice for the switch, which was a v. quick/inexpensive fix (the pump/labor ran a bit more - $2800 w/ 10% FCA discount for the pump and $675 labor)...

    If your gear indicator was out of sync with your actual gear, it might also be an actuator problem (VERY expensive). HOWEVER, my dealer knows of someone who can rebuild these for a fraction of the $20K cost of a new one. I'm glad mine was/is fine & I'm hoping yours is too :)

    I hope this is all that you need to get it back on the road!

    Cheers,

    B
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. fixitchris70

    fixitchris70 Rookie

    May 31, 2013
    5
    Thank you very much for the comments. I was envisioning frequent trips like that to the dealer with no solutions. Since its such an effort to get to my closest dealer I think I am going to change the pump motor, relay, and maybe the switch you mention (if I can) for good measure. I agree that throwing parts isn't always the way to go but if there are easy DIY jobs that will save me some money and lots of long dealer trips its worth a try - if anything it eliminates possibilities. Thanks again!
     
  6. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    There are a few things that come to my mind first:

    1) verify the f1 system pressure is within spec via an SD3 or Leonardo and that there are no leaks around the accumulator or EV lines from the power unit to actuator. An indication that the system is having trouble making/holding pressure is excessive running of the F1 pump. Try to listen for that while driving if possible... far from scientific vs. the SD3 check though.

    If the system is able to hold pressure and there are no leaks, there are some other settings to check.

    2) Clutch position/PIS needs to be read by SD3 and evaluated for possible adjustment

    3) Actuator potentiometer position sensor may also be a culprit

    For the ~$1,000 you're considering in parts, you could probably pay for enough service hours to do a thorough diagnosis with SD3/Leonardo.
     
  7. 993man

    993man Formula Junior

    Sep 20, 2009
    872
    New Zealand
    Full Name:
    Graham
    Firstly well done on the 430. They are incredible cars.
    I recently sold my 360 F1 after 3 years, as we have dealer issues as well being far away.
    I gave up for good after the pump failure. Had it been a manual I'd still own it.

    But one easy check is to see how long the pump primes for when you open the drivers door. I think it's meant to come on for a few seconds then stop. Someone will be be more precise though.
    I never picked up that the pump seemed to prime for ages. It was the motor that fried.
    I used an Afla part as it's identical, but it was half the price.
    Seriously, it's the same part so please don't get sucked in.

    To swap it over only takes about 1/2 an hour. It's easy.
    Good luck man and I hope that's all it is.
    Cheers
     
  8. mdwfa2001

    mdwfa2001 Formula Junior

    Apr 21, 2008
    253
    NJ
    Full Name:
    K
    sounds like the f1 pump. i would not recommend rebuilding an actuator, most of all of them eventually leak again. then u end up spending more. fix it correctly the first time. i just went through similar issues w actuator, and i thoroughly looked into this.
     

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