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Non Hybrid Stradale

Discussion in 'SF90 Stradale' started by SoCal to az, May 30, 2019.

  1. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    Nov 25, 2012
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    So you have a 986 HP in the car. 769 of those HP is via the engine, 217 hp roughly is from the electric motor.

    The hybrid system adds roughly 550 pounds of weight to the car putting it roughly 3600 or so pounds.

    Can you imagine what this car could have been with just the 769HP motor minus the hybrid and the weight? a 3000 pound car with 769 HP. Lighter, faster, better performance.

    Other than government regulations, what are we really gaining with the hybrid system? I know that Ferrari doesnt really have a choice so this is a mental masturbation exercise more than anything but as I study this car more and more, have we truly gained anything in terms of meaningful performance on the car?
     
  2. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

    May 10, 2012
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    Hybrid is just crap! They have to do it because of emissions . Or you make the best ICE engine or the best full electric engine (problem is the weight of the batteries, but in 10 years they will have 10 times the power and half the weight so expect a full electric with 3000hp and 1500kg eheh).

    Hybrid after the electric engines deplete or reach their top speed (in the stradale is 220km/h) is just dead weight and totally useless! It’s just crap basically...
     
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  3. gt_lusso

    gt_lusso Karting

    Oct 24, 2013
    160
    I was about to write my opinion on this, an opinion that favors the hybrid system. But the more I read what you wrote, the more I agree with you.

    So yeah, good questoin. What do we really get with a hybrid system? Only positive thing I see is being able to drive in e-mode early in morning without waking up the family. And it's nice and handy to use e-mode to move the car around in garages or in cities where petrol will be banned within the next 10-15 years.
    Performance wise, I don't see the weight being an issue like you mentioned. Heavy cars are good for traction when the power output is 1000hp. The Chiron is super heavy but perfoms really well on road and track thanks to its weight. 1500 hp would be a nightmare if the Chiron was lighter. It would feel twitchy and less refined. It's not a trackfocused car that will blow you away on a track, but neither is the SF90.

    Again, I do agree with you. I don't think Ferrari would have done hybrid systems if they could build cars just the way they wanted. But again, regulations create innovation, as it also can kill it. Atleast manafacturers have to think outside the box, and this is what we get. A car full of tech that will age very quickly.
    One thing is for sure. This hybrid nonsense do not make cars more friendly to the enviroment, witch is the goal of EUs regulation. They don't gain anything when it comes to reducing the global emissions.
     
  4. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,462
    Bournemouth, UK
    I seriously doubt that it would be quicker without the electric elements. A car like this already exists, it's the Pista and it is slower.
     
  5. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
    624
    OC
    You hit the nail on the head. The hybrid doesn’t add anything. The car would be far superior without it. But such is the world we live in... where the rule makers agendas don’t necessarily align with what makes the most sense. And now we’re stuck paying the price but who cares right? We’re all just a bunch of *******s who drive Ferrari’s... at least in the eyes of 99% of the world’s population.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. graeme355

    graeme355 Karting

    Jun 30, 2004
    139
    #6 graeme355, May 30, 2019
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
    It's the way things are headed, unfortunately, due to policy makers serving agendas. Environmentalism when dictated by Legislators is largely about centralizing power under the guise of being green. We've had the tech since Tesla (the inventor not the car) to power the world wirelessly for free, but that doesn't serve the interests of those in power.

    Will hybrids be any greener given that they require rare earth elements to be dug up from the ground and needing replacement every few years? Probably not. Like windmills, they serve to appease the senses without really serving the publicly stated goal. Because they know man made CO2 as a climate contributor is a lie not fact,
     
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  7. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    Pista is 710 hp. The non hybrid Stradale would be 789 HP. Completely different levels of performance.
     
  8. gt_lusso

    gt_lusso Karting

    Oct 24, 2013
    160
    This might be out of topic, but this is spot on. I'm not a climate denier. Human beings have been ruining this planet since the industrial revolution. That's for sure. We're parasites who sucks out the blood of the earth, where the blood is our natural resources. It does not matter how enviromentfriendly we are. We are forced to suck more blood out of the earth in order to feed and keep a population on 7.7 billion people alive.

    Hybrid and electic cars require even more natural resources to be dug up, like you said. It might minimize local Co2 emissions in the long run, but it will still f*** up the planet and ruin wildlife for millions of speices since every manafacturers out there want to build electric cars now. In 10-15 years, people who run the politics will ban electric cars too. Just wait and see. Hybrid and electric is absolutely nonsense. If they truly want to save the enivorement, ban cars! Ban everything and force people to live the old fashioned way. And ban vaccines too. Then they'll get rid of half of the population, and that will certanly help with reducing emission and over consumption.


    Back to topic. We don't get anything out of hybrid cars. Batteries are just dead weight when you pass 215 kmh anyways.
     
  9. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,462
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    You are a bit confused. 720 VC for the Pista, 780 for the V8 in the SF90. It would be a bit quicker, but nothing too dramatic.
     
  10. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,462
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    That might apply to the front motors, but I believe that the larger rear motor contributes past 215 kph.
     
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  11. shewu

    shewu Rookie

    Oct 20, 2014
    8
    A similar argument has been made for the NSX2 -- drop the e-AWD and the price to compete with a lower segment as opposed to the 911 Turbo and R8. Notably, its GT3 race variant does omit the hybrid system.
     
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  12. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    60HP would be a dramatic difference. My 488 has (had - its at the dealer for consignment as I await my Pista) 660 hp. My 720 has roughly 720 hp. Performance between the two isn't just a bit quicker- its quite dramatic the difference.

    The extra hp in the 720 blows the 488 away. It isn't close.
     
  13. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

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    Of course in full power mode with the 1000hp this car is fast in a track (still too heavy that’s why any GTE car with 500hp rapes any konig/p1/LF whatever it comes) and amazing in drag times.
    But full power mode is just for a lap and maybe 4 or 5 launches after that you’re left with a 1850kg car with 780 hp. Is it really interesting?! I mean a super fast has 800hp and maybe 1750kg...

    It’s a porker whether you like it or not!
     
  14. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

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    The amazing 720s has probably 800hp at the engine eheh
     
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  15. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    Im just going by their stated numbers.
     
  16. CT Audi Fan

    CT Audi Fan Formula Junior

    Oct 23, 2011
    462
    What makes Ferrari special is this: in 2030 a 2014 458 Italia will still be special. A 2019 McLaren 720s will not be. There is more to cars than weight and horsepower. We are evolving. Things change. Hybrids are a stopgap until full electric. In the meantime if the argument is that a 780hp ICE Would be just as fast as a 1000hp hybrid because it would weigh less ... you may be right. But maybe wait until you drive the car ... hp isn’t nearly as important as it once was and I suspect there is much more to this car than numbers. Hybrid will aid performance in many ways.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  17. U-Boat Commander

    U-Boat Commander Formula Junior
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    Who among us would not have preferred over the SF90, a Pista with 250 lbs less weight, the lower center of gravity on the SF90 and 60 more ponies for the same price as the SF90? If given the choice I would have taken the hypothetical Pista all day long.
     
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  18. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    That’s a very subjective post as to what car will be special in 2030 and you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I own a 720- have a Pista incoming- and I will tell you the 720 is the best car I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned Ferrari, Mclaren, Porsche, Mercedes BMW etc etc.
     
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  19. CT Audi Fan

    CT Audi Fan Formula Junior

    Oct 23, 2011
    462
    It’s not a knock on the 720 today. Demonstrably incredible car. The point is simply that the marque is a big part of what makes Ferrari special and it is well deserved. But it’s more than performance numbers that make something timeless. Certainly meant no offense. Can’t wait to hear your head to head impressions when the Pista arrives.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  20. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 Veteran
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    No offense taken. Ferrari is in a league of its own no doubt but I’ve been thoroughly impressed with Mclaren.

    Competition is good- end users like you and I win when manufactures compete for our business.
     
  21. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    More power per pound with the hybrid, than without.

    A: With hybrid: (986 hp)/3600 pounds
    B: Without hybrid: (986-217 hp)/(3600-550 pounds) = (769 hp)/(3050 pounds)

    A > B

    QED :)

    Plus, you get all-wheel drive plus torque vectoring (like NSX).
     
  22. U-Boat Commander

    U-Boat Commander Formula Junior
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    True, but for the same development dollars (or probably less actually) Ferrari could have easily given us a 2900 lbs car with 800 hp.
     
  23. kevin1244

    kevin1244 Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2008
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    This car has 1000HP! Yes, there is weight increase, but that does not mean the performance is subpar. Anyone who has driven a GT-R can attest to it that weight is not everything. In fact, one can say added weight would add to higher traction. Engineers and designers go through all sorts of studies to add downforce which is no different than adding weight, only that you get it at high speeds whereas weight is there at low speeds as well as high speeds. Yes, you need to move more weight; therefore 1000HP and much more available torque at any speed. There is a fine balance here and things are not necessary working against handling. Further, the two electric motors in the front add so much in terms of traction control and weight transfer management while cornering, if done properly, the car can easily outperform a lighter one on the track.
    Didn't they say this car is faster than LaFerrari, Superfast, Pista, or 488?
     
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  24. werewolf

    werewolf F1 Veteran
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    AWD from a mid-engine car requires an additional driveshaft and differential ... added weight, with no hp bonus from those extra pounds. And you don't get the torque vectoring control that an electric motor at each front wheel gives you.
     
  25. U-Boat Commander

    U-Boat Commander Formula Junior
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    I'd gladly give up AWD and torque vectoring for light weight and huge downforce with a drag reduction system when driving straight. AWD is great for 0-60 times but not much else and I have no need for that.
     

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