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Odd crank, no start condition on my 360. Ideas?

Discussion in '360/430' started by ketel, Jun 10, 2021 at 11:24 AM.

  1. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    Aug 6, 2007
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    Gang,

    I'm encountering the following with my '03 360 Spider. Two days ago, I started it and got 300 yards before I felt a hesitation under power and the CEL came on, flashing. I turned right around and took it home.

    I pulled the codes - 8 codes, all engine misfire related (P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306 and P0308). This was not entirely surprising since when I purchased the 360 3 weeks ago it had CEL codes. At the time, I cleared those codes, cleaned a few things, changed fluids, and decided to drive it a bit and see what came back.

    This time, I cleared the codes again and also cleaned the MAF sensors. This morning, I tried to start the vehicle and got a crank, but no start. Strong crank so not battery related. I also noticed "ASR" light was on when I tried to start it.

    Someone already suggested it could be a bad fuel pump, but what other diagnosis/tests can I run first? What order of elimination should I go in?

    Thanks,
    ketel
     
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  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    Two initial things that other new owners have reported for you to confirm - do you wait for 'check ok' and are you pressing really hard on the brake pedal - there are many threads about not waiting and/or pressing hard enough and/or stroppy microswitch
     
  4. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    I am no longer getting a "Check OK" when key is in position II. The "ASR" light is on and does not extinguish. Thoughts?

    ketel
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Presumably, the computer is faulty or missing some kind of input data, but relating it to your no start and hesitation problem might be difficult (if it even is related).
    The system runs through a self test on power up:

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    Perhaps the ASR light is simply a consequence of you running down the battery trying to get the engine started?

    The ABS/ASR computer gets data from wheel speed sensors and also communicates with the RH Motronic ECU and F1 TCU on a (CAN) data bus. Databusses carry lots of information, not all of which is used by the computers hooked up to them, so you don't really know what the ABS/ASR system is looking at.

    If the ASR system is faulty, I'm just wondering if it's sending out erroneous data to the RH ECU, cutting engine power.

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    When you push the brake pedal, you are moving the brake pedal arm away from the microswitch, not towards it. The switch should activate a few millimeters from fully up. You want the brake lights to go on as soon as you touch the pedal, not at the bottom of pedal travel. I can't see how pushing harder will help. More likely, the switch plunger is gummed up and not releasing. But... Ketel's car is cranking. Shouldn't a faulty microswitch stop cranking, not just starting? (I can't recall). Also, does the brake pedal inhibit start only if the F1 system is in gear? (not neutral)

    Experts?
     
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  6. gtwhaley

    gtwhaley Karting

    Jan 10, 2011
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    Greg
    Agree about the movement of the switch plunger. Had similar problems with VW cars. Sometimes we were able to press the switch manually a few times to free it up, at least temporarily to see if it helps any. Also, just checked mine and the display goes to "OK" without having to touch the brake at all. But still I would manually push the switch a few times. Need to find out if you're getting "juice" to the sparkplugs. imo, and I am certainly no expert on these cars (but learning more everyday), the ASR message seems to be a "catch ll" when things aren't working correctly. 50/50 as to whether the issue has anything to do with ASR. Hate to comeback to this same question again (as in earlier comment today), but are you able to lock & unlock the doors via the keyfob?

    Sorry to hear that you're having issues with it, only 3 weeks into ownership. These things are a labor of love! Good news is, this forum is a wealth of information and someone will help to get you going again.
     
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  8. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    #6 ketel, Jun 10, 2021 at 5:24 PM
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021 at 5:34 PM
    Interestingly, I checked the battery at the posts. Even though the battery is barely a month old and even though I've been religiously disconnecting it at the cutoff switch if I know I won't be driving the vehicle within the next day, the battery tested low on my multimeter. I got 11.5v

    So....I will recharge the battery and try again.

    As to the "labor of love" comments regarding these cars, I get it. I had a 355 for 9 years, so clearly I have masochistic tendencies. I acquired my 360 largely because I understood it was so much more reliable than the 355. But, yes, these first 3 weeks have not been kind. Still 8 more CELs to clear before I even begin to get plates in CA and actually enjoy it. But hope springs eternal, amirite?

    ketel
     
  9. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    @ketel You need to put your 360 on a battery tender. This is a must, not a suggestion.

    Also, you're hamstringing your car by shutting off the battery at the switch. Only use the switch if you are truly storing the car or need to reset the ECU's. Otherwise, forget it exists.
     
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  10. Jb-Slow

    Jb-Slow Karting

    May 11, 2020
    87
    Tender, always.

    Battery switch, almost never. Everytime you switch it off the memory is cleared and the car has to relearn all it's adaptives again. The only reasons to touch it are LONG term storage, computer work, airbags, starter and alternator. I don't know why Ferrari owners are so infatuated with that switch but it does more harm than good using it all the time.
     
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  11. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    Unfortunately, a tender is not an option. Where I store the vehicle there is no access to long term power.

    I've looked for a cordless tender - like a Power Pack - but no such item exists. If anyone knows of such a thing, I'd buy it tonight. But I've never been able to find a tender that does not require being plugged into a wall socket 24/7.

    ketel
     
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  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    Ketel,

    Do not jump the car. Charge battery with disconnect switch disconnect so no power to ECU. Today the most reliable batteries I get are from costco. They are interstate batteries and they always work because costco has a liberal return policy. Interstate does not want to loose costco business nor returns so the batteries are good. They 90% chance not have a battery for 360. So match one up with terminals in right place about the same size or as big as will fit and 99% it will work.

    If your old bat holds charge it will be 12.6+V for 100% and 12.4 for 80% charged. Any less and get a new battery.

    You need to clear codes before starting your car. The codes you got can be ghosts because you have no power. If you did not return home you would have died on the side of the road with dead battery.

    If you still have problems after the above and car will not start after some cranking check the battery again. A significant voltage drop means that battery is dead. Buy a new one and start the process above again.

    If after that you got problems Mitchel is your man!!! Bring beer and cash...
     
  14. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    Hey FBB -

    No, I would never dream of jump starting the 360 (or any Ferrari for that matter.) I was planning to just recharge the battery back to 12.6v or thereabouts by hooking up my portable Power Pack 600 charger/jumper to it and letting it top up overnight.

    As to recharging the battery what's the best way to do that with the battery still in the vehicle? What's the "disconnect switch disconnect"? I don't want to fry my ECUs. The OM only references recharging the battery with the battery removed from the vehicle.

    ketel
     
  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    This switch. use it while charging from dead. This effectively allows you to charge the battery while it is in the car so you don't have to take it out like the OM says.
     
  16. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Power pak might charge it. Depends on power of the power pack and deadness of your battery. 11.5 v is totally discharged.
     
  17. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    OK noob question, but the cutoff switch in the frunk is just a knob that's turned. Where are the posts on which to attach a charger (other than the battery itself)?

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  18. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Use cutoff switch this isolates the car from battery. Then directly connect charger to battery terminals + to + and - to - and charge old battery.

    alternatively you could change to a new battery and then reconnect kill switch and start the car. At some point you will need to clear codes because those codes you got were ghosts from poor power.
     
  19. clean512

    clean512 Formula Junior
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    There is not many options for hooking up battery cables like more modern cars. I still feel the best way is to go directly to the battery.
     
  20. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Do you have one of those prehistoric Ferrari chargers with the 3 pin bayonette type plugs? There is a connector for this under the cover which conceals the brake/clutch fluid reservoir

    If not, some folks put a pigtail on the battery bus bar behind the driver's seat and use a CTEK. The bus bar is just above floor level under a carpeted step.

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    This is the equivalent of the one in the engine bay on the F355. There should be a few earth studs in that area, too.
     
  21. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    If I understand you, you're saying turn the cutoff switch to the "off" position and then connect the charger to the battery directly. Gotcha. From your last response I thought there might be separate charging posts for the battery, like with the 355 where there is the "+" post and a bolt for a ground in the engine bay so one does not have to remove the passenger side front wheel to access the battery.

    ketel
     
  22. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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    No, I don't have a Ferrari charger per se, just a SuperStart Power Pack 600 portable charger you can find at any auto parts store. Pulling the battery cover I did find a pigtail from the PO that was just loose. This indicates that at some point there was a tender on this battery.

    I am not familiar with this 2-prong connector and it won't fit my charger without some kind of adapter. Does this look familiar to anyone? (See photo below) If so, perhaps I can find an adapter on Amazon and connect it to my portable charger and make my life a lot easier.

    ketel
     
  23. ketel

    ketel Formula 3
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  24. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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  25. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    there could be a 355 like setup I can’t remember. But either way if you have that gizmo you need to see if 11.5v is there with cutoff switch in off position. If yes you can charge from the gizmo. If no then you charge on battery directly. I’m telling you the easy way from post 10 taking things like whether the gizmo is active whether kill switch is on or off out of the equation. Kiss especially when you are building your knowledge base.
     
  26. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3
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    Solar powered battery tenders are available if that is an option for you. Depends on where your Ferrari is stored.
    like most, I keep my 360 on a CTek whenever not in use.
     
  27. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula Junior
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    #24 EastMemphis, Jun 11, 2021 at 7:49 AM
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021 at 8:04 AM
    @ketel If I was in your situation, I'd probably build up a battery pack on casters with four six volt deep discharge batteries like are used in golf carts, and then use an inverter and a tender. Once a month, roll your battery pack somewhere that it can be charged. This should be good enough to keep the 360 from nose diving under 12.5v.

    These cars are ridiculously sensitive to low voltage. I doubted this when I first got my 360 and after about six months, started to see odd electrical problems that went away when I started using the tender. I believe the alternators are just enough to keep the car going but woefully inadequate to keep the car charged. Couple this with the low miles racked on these cars and the result is terminally low battery function. The tender makes up for it and turns these cars into reliable beasts, at least electrically.

    Have you checked your car for excessive parasitic draw from the battery? Your battery should have lasted months before discharging to 11.5v. That indicates you may have a "leak" some place that's sucking the battery dry. The procedure for checking for parasitic draw is fairly simple and involves disconnecting the battery and running a multimeter with milliamp capability in series with the battery and the car with the key out. The draw should be less than 100mA. If more, you've got a problem.

    Most common problems are aftermarket toys added to the car outside of the normal circuit that remain hot all the time. These types of installations bypass your main battery switch and can draw juice continuously.
     
  28. brookliner7

    brookliner7 Formula Junior

    May 5, 2018
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    He is not getting a check ok light, The brake pedal switch has nothing to do with the check ok light to start.
     

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