Odometer Roll Backs

Needs to be exposed. But, what if you’re wrong? So, maybe you should start out politely questioning vs accusing.

Would you confront him on a social media/car forum to make his responses public?

 

unfortunately these things happen and sometimes more at dealerships then we all know.. but i wouldn't get involved unless your 100 percent.

 

According to a tuner/ mechanic friend, Italians are very easy to rollback, unlike Germans. His wealthy friend does it all the time. Of course for stuff like this everything remains anonymous


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I thought that mileage is also stored in the TCU (transmission control unit).

It is strange how Ferraris in US have comparatively lower mileage than cars in Europe. Given that gas is so much cheaper one would think that US cars have higher mileage...

CF

 

Must just be more fearful of driving them. If the majority of the country is mileage conscious it’ll rub off onto everyone else.

 

Dealership service records include mileage at time of service as well. States require mileage recording at time of re-registration, state inspection, and emissions testing. And insurance companies like to know mileage. Better have your bases covered from the beginning if you’re gonna go the fraudulent route.

 

IMHO , a 2000 mile rollback seems hardly worth it.
I think this thread comes under “ get some business and mind it “. Best , Kirk

 

Odo rollbacks on such electronically advanced supersports cars, is it even possible? I mean, in the sense that it's untraceable?

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Personally, no knowledge whether it's ever been done, but these allegations show up from time to time. Logically, it makes NO sense for a dealership to risk their business by rolling back, these dealerships are not used car lots. Why would a dealer ever consider something that stupid, they pay what the car is worth when the owner brings it in for trade, or they price it based on the current market, including the mileage. The owner takes the hit, not the dealership. If a private owner has a way to roll back mileage, I would think they would eventually be exposed. If you can afford these cars, and you love to drive, accept the resale hit when it sells.


Jim

 

Truth be told mileage can be rolled back on a 458 via the OBD2 port.
Don't as me details etc etc.

 

Ancient topic discussed many times here. The consensus last time was it is not much of a secret how its done for those that work with them. However, I would believe it will become extremely difficult in coming models as the ECUs and grid evolve and be in nearly constant communication. And with hybrid and full electric vehicles, it would be an ideal way to collect taxes as less revenue gets collected at the pump.

 

According to the website of an odometer adjustment company the 458 Italia gets adjusted as follows: dashboard, operating hours, engine control unit, transmission control unit, error codes.

As long as you have the right adjustment tool (cost of 10,000 US$) you can easily via OBD2 adjust all relevant units on the car. Given the premiums that are piad for low mileage cars, such a unit may be worth it even for a single car.

CF

 

To roll back miles it couldn't happen in Pennsylvania say for example
When a car gets inspected miles get reported to state.
If no cars get inspected yearly possibly it can happen.
But this a bad thing if people to this...bad karma.

 

Of course it happens in PA. Unscrupulous owners just adjust the odometer right before the inspection.

The more expensive the car, the more often it happens. Karma or no karma...

 

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in, honesty means very little to those controlled by money. These people have no integrity......perhaps bad parenting, but likely just *******s. I wonder what they see when they look in the mirror........


Jim

 

They see money.

 

Is it an older car? Anything 20 years or newer is going to have a CarFax history available which could expose speedo fakery.

 

True, but reports are only generated when the owner visits the dealer for service (or repair), or goes to a shop that reports. My 458 is a good example, there was a period in the year when I drove 2300 miles 3 separate times (round trip to football games), so 6900 miles, in between dealer reports. If I were the kind of person that rolled back, I could have done that before going to dealer for annual service, and erased almost 7000 miles. If there were the will, there is certainly a way that mileage could more accurately be collected, automatically, via WiFi / GPS reports back to the manufacturer (or other entity) is one method, I'm sure there are others.


Jim

 

Back in the '80's the speedo cable attached to the differential on the back side of BMW's. It clicked out easily. One late night in northern Oklahoma, I was passed by a convoy of about 5 new BMWs with window stickers heading north. I filed in behind them and they all had the speedo cables hanging down low behind the differential.

 

Most countries in the western world have cars undergo inspections.

In England it's called MOT, in Portugal it's called IPO (on the 4th, 6th and 8th year of the car - and on a yearly basis from there onwards).

Fact of the matter is meddling with the odo can go undetected. Not if you deduct mileage from it, but if you add only a portion of the miles the car was actually driven.

For instance: if you deduct miles, this is a clear red flag and car at the MOT would look something like this:

2010: 2.000 mi.
2011: 10.000 mi.
2012: 30.000 mi.
2013: 55.000 mi.
2014: 79.000 mi.
2015: 101.000 mi.
2016: 36.000 mi.
2017: 44.000 mi.

But if someone drives 10.000 mi/year for instance, but only adds 2 or 3.000 mi to the odo, mileage is shown to be always increasing (as it should) without still reflecting the car's actual mileage.

And that is a worry.

Not being a particularly electronically inclined guy, I don't know what to think: On the one hand, I can't believe that such advanced cars nowadays don't record every single parameter on the ECU, thus showing if the odo has been tampered with. On the other hand, if it's electronic, it depends on a human to be programmed and/or reprogrammed, so if someone knows what he's doing, he might pull it off.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Be careful on what you buy.....


"Until recently, Ferrari dealers in South Florida and elsewhere were able to roll back the odometers of the fancy pre-owned cars they sold.

But when the Miami Herald and other media organizations brought attention to it, the company discontinued the practice that could grossly inflate the value of used Ferraris, according to new documents filed in a Palm Beach County lawsuit.

In an internal Ferrari memo filed Feb. 8 in the lawsuit brought by a former showroom salesman-turned-whistleblower Robert “Bud” Root, Ferrari North America notifies dealers it will no longer provide access codes that for years allowed an app called DEIS tester to make miles driven vanish from dashboards of Spiders, Californias and 488 GTBs.
The odometer ‘reset to zero’ functionality is being removed,” the memo reads. It also announces the removal from its Ferrari Workshop Manuals of the paragraphs that taught techs how to roll back miles.
“This internal Ferrari bulletin appears to confirm exactly what we suspected all along, that the odometer rollback device has been in place in Ferrari dealership service departments nationwide, if not worldwide, for many years [and] that the odometer rollback procedure was sanctioned at the highest organizational level,” said West Palm Beach attorney David Brodie, who represents Root.


“The practice ceased after my client, Bud Root, blew the whistle and just days after his story was picked up by the media. What remains now is to determine how pervasive this practice has been and to compel Ferrari to come clean.”

After spending 22 years selling Ferraris throughout South Florida, Root sued for libel Ferrari of Palm Beach and one of his clients, former Sara Lee Corp. CEO C. Steven McMillan.

Root claims he was fired after discovering odometers got rolled back and discussing it with McMillan, who allegedly then paid off a mechanic from the dealership to roll back his LaFerrari mileage.

Root explained in court paper the rollback — which had to be green-lit by Ferrari headquarters in Italy — instantly increased the resale value of McMillan’s $3 million-LaFerrari by $1 million, Root’s lawsuit claims.

Root says he was fired by Ferrari of Palm Beach in January 2016 for “egregious violation of business ethics,” allegedly facilitating McMillan’s rollback.


What really happened, Root says in the suit, is that he was targeted after he loudly objected to the use of the rollback device.

Root was rehired in March 2016. Since then, however, he claims Ferrari of Palm Beach engaged in a pattern of retaliation, including his move to an office that’s harder to reach by customers.

In a statement, Ferrari of North America Director of Communications Krista Florin said the company did nothing wrong or illegal.

“Resetting an odometer to zero in case of a malfunction of the odometer when the pre-repair mileage is unknown is consistent with the federal odometer law,” Florin wrote. “Ferrari determined that the risks of odometer fraud in the United States from unauthorized use of the DEIS tool outweighed the convenience of this functionality, and thus, Ferrari has informed its network with a technical bulletin of a software update to eliminate the odometer reset functionality.”

 

Software patches can easily be patched back. Compare the binary and replace back. Presto - feature restored. What's new about the article above is that the odometer rollback fraud was deemed too risky so it was dropped. If it was just the one case over the history then extremely small risk. Draw you own conclusions I guess.

 

Amazing LaF story ... makes the owner a croock also imo !

 

German cars are not immune; when I was living in Morocco Audi were routinely rolled back...