Everyone has their money in the stock market trying to leverage the appreciation. When if this slows, everyone will try to invest their money elsewhere and the collector car market will go back up again as supply shrinks.
I'm having a tough time being realistic about this 308 GTS I am looking at to buy and "resurrect". There's a metric ton worth of red-flags but if the price were right, I would take the leap. Here are the wart highlights; what do you think is a reasonable value for both me and seller given you can buy a nice one for 60'ish? - '84 QV GTS; USA / AZ car since birth. Black with Cream (black dash and carpets) - Branded title due to state seizure Oct. 1995. In impound for 2 years! Lapsed reg. and has a minimum of 1k in back fees. - Didn't pass its last smog but has factory emissions equipment in tact. - 18k miles which appears verifiable. - Hasn't had a major service (or any other for that matter) for at least 15 years. Needs nearly every time sensitive / perishable motor-related ancillary replaced. Gearbox / clutch ok. Crackle paint is half worn off. No corrosion. Most zinc is faded. - Repainted with average to below average results with overspray on some weatherstripping and some bolt-on body items like vents / light bezels etc. Shows ok...needs a wet-sanding on some panels. No filler anywhere according to gauge and magnet. - Handful of small dents; largest is 1.5 inch but shallow. - Rust spots on bottom of each door skin and very bottom of each front quarter. Largest is 2 inches. No through the metal. No other corrosion. Chassis clean and damage free. - Both door seals, targa top front seal and trunk seal are torn or chaffed. - Konis are stiff and should be rebuilt. - Probably needs every suspension bushing. - Brake calipers function well incl. emergency. - Light wear on seat surfaces...nothing major. Dash is free on damage. - Missing some misc. switch gear trim / knobs and some broken vent trim. A/C is obviously not functioning. - Radiator will need re-coring most likely. Overflow tank has pin holes on top neck at solder joint. - Tires shot. Center caps shot. Wheels need refinishing to look decent. - Emblems average at best. - Period radio / cassette. - Dented diaper but could be straightened. - Dented Ansa tips on one side. - No tools / jack - No manuals nor book Not something I would usually consider but I could fix and mod without care for originality or stacking miles on it when it's done.
If you can get a nice 84 with current service and in driver condition for $60,000 I would go that route. You will be at $60k with this car anyway. Been there, done that. This stuff adds up quickly.
That's a lot of damage for 18k miles. I'd price it based assuming 118k miles. Any leakdown or compression numbers? A bad motor will eat $25k.
It sounds to me as if it's on the borderline of becoming a parts source. I think you'll easily spend 2-3x as much fixing this car than you'd pay for it. So, you can either pay $15K for this car and spend $50K fixing it over the next 2 years, or you can just buy a 308 for $65K and enjoy driving it next week. I'd suggest the latter.
It sounds fun to do all the maintainence etc., but it's gonna end up costing you more than a decent driver with all of that done already. Post some pics of your progress
I decided to trade my 308 gts and another car against my (now ) countach. What made the deal was the amount I got for the trades. Now, I know that there are many variables like what the dealer is into the out going car. I valued my 308 at $85,000 and my other at $35,000(that would be the sellable market value). Needless to say, it is the ONLY way to get this amount in this market. I will say that I was very satisfied with the amounts on the trade. I don't know if this comment fits in this thread but I thought it might be.
Great time to upgrade. Not pretty or practical but brutal, iconic and a better investment. I'm jealous!
It's just like the Alfa Romeo RZ/SZ. Because it's not "pretty" at first sight (Although I like them, and I never would use the word "ugly" for almost any Italian car) , they grow on you. They get beautiful. Thanks for posting that lovely picture, but... Noublesse Oublige, so you háve to post a soundclip of that magnificent V12 ! Congrats on getting that iconic car. I'm jealous too !!
I'm letting go of my wonderful 308 after 9 years together. Car is a beautiful driver with 46k miles on the clock. Mechanically, she is rock solid and has been well cared for with about $20k spent on services the past 9 years including a major belt service at 43k miles. I have 20 years worth of service records as well. I will be sad to see her go but interested in what the market values her currently. Later today I will post on FChat and hopefully she finds a new home with a fellow FChatter. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Check the Hagerty Valuation Tool to see their outlook. It's always out of date, but it shows some important things. Most important is to note just how much values have spread between a Condition #1 and Condition #4 car. 5 years ago there was a tiny spread; now it is huge. What this means is that you have to assess the condition of your car and decide where in the price spectrum you want to list it. Exotic cars are hard to sell; there are very few buyers looking at any given time. If you urgently need to sell it, that is one thing and a fire sale price will attract an opportunistic buyer. If you have time however, it may take a very long while to get a price that is "reasonable" for the car. The jury is out (as it always seems to have been) about whether prices or falling or rising. It seems like the doubling of "average" value from 5 years ago ($30k vs. $60k) seems to be sticking, but who knows for sure.
Thanks for the info! I do love the countach, unfortunately I don't have the means to make up the difference in price between that and my 308 . Topcarbon, Do you mind sharing the details on your car to give some reference to the 85k you got in trade? There was another 83' QV on BaT last week that did not make the reserve (which they said was 66k.) I feel like that was an ambitious reserve, but not outrageous. I did not see the car in person though. TRX's again, and this one had the smog equipment (at least the air pump), but was missing the shroud around the radio and somebody noticed something potentially shady in the service receipts. The shroud looked expensive to source.
My 1979 gts was formerly owned by lee Majors and had receipts from almost new. I also had some work done so there was nothing this carneeded. It was not perfect but a very honest example. There was 42k miles. I think, the combination of time the countach was with the dealer, my persistence, the uncertainty in the countach market , and a buyer for the car made the deal.
Hagerty artificially inflates their values to increase insurance premiums. I would take their value with a grain of salt
