Official Countach Value Thread

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by Peter K., Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie
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    #1 Peter K., Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
    I have started this thread with a little help from my friends.
    A few people have come to me about what I think values of different models are. I just do not have loads of experience as some of you.

    So, I would like everyone to put in their 2 cents and state their thoughts and views.

    I can officially say that I would sell my Series One (first completed S, Production #2) for 1 million dollars. :):):):):):):)

    COUNTACH VALUES:


    LP400

    LP400S S1

    LP400S S2

    LP400S S3

    LP500S

    LP500QV FI

    LP500QV DD

    ANNIVESARIO
     
  2. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie
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    I have had 2 offers for 500k for my S1 for the last 2 years BUT only if I did all the paint and stuff I recently did.
    To me, that was 1-2 years ago and I would add $ to that number as every year passes.
    The longer I keep, the more I would ask.
     
  3. vaholtorf

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    I think the idea is good, but I think all of us will just be speculating as to values, since the liquidity is just not there to establish a proper valuation for these cars. These cars just trade too thinly for us average guys to establish a price foundation. I'm not trying to deter anybody from contributing, but I think there are only two people in the country that deal in these cars enough to know, and I would suggest a call to them would be the way to know values at a given time. I would call Roy or Joe, or both, to find out current values.
     
  4. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran
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    As I agrre, there is not much publication of selling prices, when and if some of these cars trade. I am sure Joe, as well as me, has customers that dont want prices out there as a lot of them or private and want to keep their business private. I also think EACH car, espically the older ones, have to be evaluated on their own...however in the spirit of the thread..I will give what I think an "average" car of this description should be bringing in todays world.

    LP400 $750K plus




    LP400S S1 $475K plus (early car with Guages and Bravo wheels) deduct $50k for later
    S1 cars




    LP400S S2 $275K plus




    LP400S S3 $200K plus




    LP500S $150K plus




    LP500QV FI $100K plus (add $25K for 88 1/2 cars)




    LP500QV DD $200K plus (add $50K for 88 1/2 cars)




    ANNIVESARIO $125K plus (add $10K for 1990 vin car over 89 vin car)
     
  5. Peter K.

    Peter K. F1 Rookie
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    There are people who do not want to talk to Joe or Roy.
    I know their input is extremely valuable.

    Plus there has been much discussion lately on the boards about this and I was asked to start this thread to help.
     
  6. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Great thread Peter!

    One of the nice things about a forum is that it allows equal participation from owners, enthusiasts and people in the trade alike. That has to be a good thing because potential buyers and sellers soon get an idea of what market is and can determine genuine value themselves. That has to be good for everyone.

    One of the reasons the Ferrari market is so prolific successful is that it is more defined. Threads like this will help. Give me a while and I will give my thoughts on the variants...
     
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  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Victor, I think besides people in the trade, it is good to see this from the perspective of potential buyers & sellers, collectors who are not even thinking of selling, and enthusiasts who are only dreaming of "one day". The more straightforward and exposed the views on numbers are, the healthier the market, and he better it is for all involved, dont you think?
     
  9. vaholtorf

    vaholtorf Formula 3
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    Yes, you are right. In any case, if I knew a guy that wanted to sell or buy a Countach, I would advise them to call you or Roy to find out, as imo that would be much faster and more accurate than browsing the Internet to get an idea. But, Peter, your point is well taken too; some people just don't want to call and/or would rather do their own work browsing the internet.
     
  10. LC3929

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    "Stuff"? What was done?
    Paint: which colour did you use?
     
  11. roytoy2003

    roytoy2003 F1 Veteran
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    LOL I just cracked up..but 110% right, there are people that dont want tot alk to me..cant win them all!
     
  12. EMILIO

    EMILIO F1 Veteran
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    my european opinion for very nice-original cars

    LP400 300k euro

    LP400S S1 200-220k euro

    LP400S S2 150-160k euro

    LP400S S3 140k euro

    LP500S 140k euro

    LP500QV FI 100k euro

    LP500QV DD 140k euro

    ANNIVESARIO 110k euro

    add 15% for the best perfect cars
     
  13. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    add $50K for Acapulco Blue :D
     
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  15. smglop

    smglop Formula Junior

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    How much of a role does color and mileage play in the price of each individual model?
    Or are these cars rare enough to make those factors obsolete?

    For the enthusiasts on this board, any and all Countachs are desired. But I wonder what a
    true collector would be looking for. Someone who is looking for "investment grade" to put next to his vintage Ferrari and Bugatti would probably be asking a whole different set of questions than someone who has to have one in his garage right now.

    Like I said

    Color?

    Mileage?

    How may owners?

    Condition?

    Potential very helpful thread.
     
  16. vaholtorf

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    #14 vaholtorf, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012

    IMO, for a blue chip investment by a blue chip car collector, I think the LP400 has to be first and foremost, just because it was the original, replaced the iconic Miura, and was far and away the most advanced production road car available at any price when introduced. Now that I am involved with these top collectors through High Mountain Classics (highmountainclassics.com), and we have eight Bugattis in the shop, GP Ferraris, etc., owned by serious collectors, I think I am getting better insight into what these ultra-rich mega collectors may want next. Our customers are not Countach guys (yet?), except for Leno, but if they heard vintage Lambos are the thing to have (beyond the Miura), I think they would want the LP400.
    Now for the guys who grew up in the eighties, I think the flared variants will be the ones, but then, that is more of an emotionally driven decision, not a purely investment decision.
    All Countachs will go up in value, and mostly for emotional reasons, but for the unemotional blue chip investors, I think it will be LP400 much more than the others. Of course, that will continue to drive LP400 prices up, and the other varaiants will follow suit. All the above is just my opinion, so it is worth what you paid for it! I love them for purely emotional reasons, but it is a nice side-benefit when they go up in value.
     
  17. Peter K.

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    I think original color is best and most valuable. Period correct is acceptable. Any other color is risky. Flames and candy are a no no.
     
  18. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Emilio you have your finger on the pulse, I think. Good summary.
     
  19. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    My summary is based on actual running cars. Anything from a restoration project, all the way to restored cars in original spec and low-mileage nice original (unrepeatable) cars.

    In my experience stories, accidents, fire, provenance & identity issues all collaborate to ensure that it is all about the RANGE. This means the range from the bottom to the top can be vast.

    It is important to have comps and be dispassionate. Its also important to base values on whats been SOLD and not on offers. Offers are just talk, nothing more. When the funds are nestling in your bank account, then you have something. Its also important to realize that potential buyers & sellers will see values differently, but if there is to be a sale then the middle-ground can be considered.

    Where are these numbers coming from? Auctions, dealer sales (verified from both seller & buyer often with different numbers, simply split the difference!), private party sales shares (similarly verified when possible) and my own specialist sales facilitated (no problem with a confidentiality clause, chassis numbers & owners names are not posted but numbers can be verified with a redacted document for a party with proprietary interest if needed).

    There is a little more that goes into a top number achieved for an excellent example than simply asking the biggest amount one dares to ask and hoping to get it. I think once owners understand this they will have reasonable expectations and anyone astute knows reasonable expectations can drive a healthy market whereas unrealistic expectations can quickly freeze a market. There is the case recently of an owner asking pie-in-the-sky numbers for a Countach QV. A number of qualified buyers were so turned off by this that to them this particular car is now undesirable at any price in the future. Food for thought. As Enzo Ferrari used to say: "Shoot, but aim correctly!" (literally translated).

    Without further ado, here are my numbers, subject to amendment as time & sales go on.


    =====================================


    LP400 - $300,000 to $500,000

    LP400S S1 - $250,000 to $450,000

    LP400S S2 - $150,000 to $225,000

    LP400S S3 - $100,000 to $150,000

    LP500S - $100,000 to $150,000

    LP500QV FI - $75,000 to $125,000

    LP500QV DD - $125,000 to $175,000

    ANNIVESARIO - $100,000 to $175,000
     
  20. roytoy2003

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    I am always caught in a rock and a hard spot. I have always had fun exotic cars, all types, as well as the Iconic American Muscle cars. From day one, I never ever have considered a purchase based on it's "possible" down the road value..I bought becuae I liked it, the price was acceptable to me and I wanted to drive the car.

    As many know, my very first Lamborghini was my 2001 Diablo 6.0SE #19. I bought it brand new out of South Jordan, UT in Sept 2002, (after a shafting from FNA on a Lemon 360..was my 12th Ferrari at the time). I will never forget the salesman dis-believe that I was going to drive the car hom from the Dealership in Fall weather over 1800 miles home to Seattle..still till this day, one of the best roadtrips I ever had. It is approaching 50K miles on it and it still looks great and run's even better!

    Then as things fell into place, my love for Lambo's grew, I started buying others, collecting them, driving them..and then getting into the car BIZ..what started as a hobby and enjoyment turned into a business. A good BIZ as it lets me play with a lot of cars and provides a nice steady income to buy the toys I want. I started the "collect" them route, having picked up a few Miura's, but they did nothing for me driving them, so I sold them. (still today have no desire for a Miura, just does not trip my trigger).

    So then came a time when my LP400 Periscopa car was completed from it's almost 5 year restoration. The work covered every not and bolt on the car and turned out truly as a 10 point Pebble beach condentender. I got it delivered home late last summer, drove about 100 miles on it the first weeked, then stuffed it into the showroom in the corner, put a rope around it, a sign up in front of it, what it was etc etc..

    I have looked at that car every day for the past 6-7 months, WOW it's stunning, a work of art, love talking about it when people come into the showroom..etc etc..have had serious 6 figure offer's for it, saying NO I want to keep it. It can't be replaced, at least not fast enough for me to enjoy it in my declining years of driving ability. Now this week it hit me!

    "WHAT THE HECK AM I DOING"...I waited 5 years to get it done, love it, was a great 100 miles I drove on it. But now it just sits there, me looking at it, it looking at me..just rotting away with no enjoyment for me or the car that it was built for. So it was a nice sunny day here in Seattle on Wednesday. I said screw it, I am taking it out for a drive. Had my lot boy's move 8 cars out of the way so I could get it outside.

    This is were my OWN always POUNDING into everyone I talk to, DRIVE them dont let them sit, not good for the car..well sure enough, the 400 got back at me for letting it sit for 7 months. It took a bit to get it started..but after a few try's it fired up and off I went for a nice lunch drive. When I got back my son said to me.."Do you want it back in the corner?"
    It then came over me, what the heck for, it was built to drive, I paid good hard earned money for it, I want to enjoy it!

    We drove it right over to NWAS next door and ordered a full one piece Venture shield film protection over the entire front car and all the leading edges, as well as wheel arches etc etc..sure WHO ever heard of a 1975 Iconic collector car with perfect finish being wrapped in film..NUTS..suppose to be like the "Holly Bible" not changed from it's birth, leave as is..

    What does all this mean..it means even after all these years, even after opening the showroom in July last year, even after selling and selling more and more cars these last 7 months..I came to my senses, I bought them to enjoy them and drive them, I DID NOT buy them to look at them and hope and pray they go up in Value and sit each day counting my "Chickens-investment" with a worry what it looses with another mile added to the ODO or a rain drop on the window, or a little road ware on the car..etc etc. I came into this world naked and broke, I can leave that way as well, they are a toy for me to enjoy...and if they are still around when I go bye bye (hopefully up-stairs and not down LOL) my kids can do what ever they please with them...hopefully it is drive them and enjoy them as I have. I for one just will not buy into the "collect them" my garage is bigger and better the yours stuff.

    And just in case you are wondering why all the Venture Shield is being put on the car....becuase it is getting shipped down to LA, where I intend to drive it, along with my kid's driving my 96 Diablo SV-R Flag car from there to Monterey this year in the Italian Stampede. And when Concourso is done in August, the kid's fly home, the SV-R ships home and I will take a nice 3 days of unwind and back roads back to Seattle in my LP400 Periscopa...AND that my friends YOU CAN NOT PUT A PRICE ON.
     
  21. Aviatorbobby

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    I agree!


     
  22. Peter K.

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    I may need to ask to have the title of the thread changed because it sounds like official value when it should say "official value discussion thread"
     
  23. roytoy2003

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    Some very good points Joe..espicaly the "Asking the moon" one..it is very hard, as a seller of these cars to speak to a possible "seller" of his car..a lot of times they get emotionly attached..and more often the not, almost every seller thinks their car is the best one out there and worth the most on the market. I have, as I am sure others have, declined to attempt to borker or sale a car on consigment just for the simple fact that the price the seller wants is just not going to work.

    BUT, there is also the other side of the coin as well. There are car's out there, that are rare and non replaceable. They are hard to put a number on, not many have traded hands and it is what the owner may want to even consider parting with it. Case in point, some of my very own cars..priced high, probably, BUT it is what it is worth to ME the seller to let the car go. There is no reason to sell it, no fire sale, no pending foreclosure on the house etc etc..so IF it gets what I want, it can go, other wise I enjoy it..and such as the case with some of my clients that ask me to sell/broker/consign their car. You have to respect their wishes.

    The case, as Joe points out on the OUT of this world QV of recent..I agree, the seller was NOT attached to the cars, it was PURELY a make a BIG QUICK profit, (so it was thought) on the sale of those cars. I dont know what the status of them now is..but I also had quite a few "intrested" people that did not want to chase these cars...and IMO are now tainted as well...after all how do you justify a $75K drop in price to move them now. The old saying of "the first offer is probably the best offer" is SO TRUE with many of these cars.

    Another recent example is of a DD car that started out at $250K..as of early this week it is down to $160K..BUT it has left such a bad taste in many an intrested party, that you cant get "the horse to drink the water" after you scarred them away from the bucket. It is also a car that HAS to be sold by the owner, not a car that does NOT need to be sold..so does it make the mark for future DD cars..?? I am sure it will be reffered to as others come on to the market and buyers use it's price as a bench mark. But it is a good example of the difference between a car that HAS to be sold and a car that IS FOR sale.

    I do see where my estimates are a bit higher then Joe for the most part, and mine are based on past sales, current "asking" prices, but most important for me in my posting is the current potential buyers that have "authorized" a seek it out "for me" and this is what I am willing to go to price. Of course it is for a 10 point "perfect" car at the top end of the availabilty.

    The only one that throws ME for a loop, Joe, is your high $175K for a Anneversary car?? I jsut cant see that at all..maybe it is because they dont trip my trigger as well..maybe it's becuase they are quite a few good choices out there right now at under 125K..I dont know the answer, but I just do not see any of these cars (with the exception of the One of One Silver car), being even close to a 175K mark.
     
  24. EarlyCat

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    The 89 sounds off to me as well. The exception could be a dd with sport seats though.
     
  25. roytoy2003

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    Possible, but I am assuming (that could be the bad part) that we are talking USA imported cars..I know of NO 89 DD brought to the USA...through the standard route at least..
     
  26. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #24 joe sackey, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ill stick with that range and here is my rationale:

    With commissions, I have already sold one USA Annivesario (12670 below) at that number.

    Excellent very low mileage examples in the right color will be between 100 and 175 in the future because the fact remains that the Annivesario is the last-of-a-series Countach that happens to be the best built, the most reliable, the best handling Countach that enthusiasts can actually use. I think in the future will be more demand for these and I am seeing clients of mine who have other Countachs buy one of these just to DRIVE. I'm comfortable with that range. That's a beauty of a forum, we can all share our opinions and recorded numbers.
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  27. roytoy2003

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    Will, At least I got it right on the Silver car. I think that car
    is stunning! However, IMO, the exception...not the rule.
     

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