Official Countach Value Thread

Many cars.

As MiuraP400 points out.

Lots of vintage Ferraris.

Lots of vintage Porsches.

And more besides.

 

Okay, so the Periscopo cars are production cars, non-race versions that are very close to the late 80s production cars. Anyone would immediately identify them as the same but newer.

Comparing unique race cars is not the same. Stating that various vintage Porsche's and Ferrari in general doesn't apply either. Again, one off versions aside.

Even the Cobra doesn't work. The 289 is way different than the 427! And they have a close valuation spread. $1 million vs $1.5. Only $500k and the cars is completely different as anyone who has driven both can attest to. I sold a 289 in 2011 for $500k, it is now worth a million.

So name a particular model where there is a $1,000,000 spread on the low end and up to $1.5 at the top!

Educate me. I've been playing with cars for 35 years and haven't seen that kind of spread for like kind, production cars. I don't mind being wrong either. I just can't come up with another.

 

289 is similar to a lp400, smaller engines and no flares. The 427 is like a QV DD large engine and flares. I agree 289s are $1M, RM is estimating a little over $2M for the 427SC that is up for sale next week.

Miura p400 is about a $1M, Joe's old SV is expected to bring over $2M next week. To me the changes in the Miura production are smaller than the Countachs.

I do not understand why the 275GTB Ferrari is not valid, it is a production car. The difference between a short nose and a 4 cam is a $1M plus. If you add in the 275GTB/C the spread in value is huge compared to the Countach.

Cheers Jim

 

Oh boy!

Okay, in the same way you say "The 289 is way different than the 427", then I can tell you as the owner of both, that the LP400 Periscopa is WAY different than the 25th Anniversario, not remotely the same car, which makes the entire premise of this hypothesis moot, right?

Look at Cavallino Magazine's Mercato "GUIDA" page, and you'll see a few road cars that ascribe to a $1m to $1.5 range differential for what is simply a different variant of the very same model: 166s, 212s, 250s, 275s, 365s, and so forth. I'd venture to say that as cars in general increase in value, this kind of spread is becoming more common.

At any rate, are we discussing this as speculators, or enthusiasts?

I ask because the viewpoint depending on which side you are is "way different"!

Jim is correct, by the way.

 

I have never driven or even sat inside a 400. What top 3 things would you offer as an owner of them both which drastically differentiate the two?

The lines between speculator and enthusiast are always burred.

A partner and I bought a Riva Super Aquarama in 2005. Spent a quarter million dollars on the restoration over 2 1/2 years. We even reported it on our IRS return as an owned asset, not inventory. We showed it for 1 year then advertised it for another. Since all the market experts on Riva boats disagreed on our asking price it remained unsold. We ultimately sold it at auction for a World's Record price of $775k in 2010.

Was I a speculator or enthusiast?

I challenge anyone to suggest I am not an enthusiast.

Enthusiast - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I often get this put off statement when presenting vehicles at auction when folks realize I have 5-10 cars being offered. Usually goes like this, "Oh! You're a dealer!" The wall goes up, they typically shut down and try to disengage. Never one to avoid a challenge or miss an opportunity. I finally designed a response which puts things in perspective. " I am completely passionate about all things motorized and especially cars. I buy and sell them and have had MANY! But I have had the same wife for 33 years and from what I have been told, it's a lot cheaper that way." Which always brings smiles and often laughter since there is typically one person in ear shot who experienced shall we say, a messy divorce.

The year after I sold the Riva we were approached by the son of one of the two founders of Sony to sell his Riva. The last wood Riva ever built. We did present that boat to the market and it sold for $1 million. The balance of the Riva enthusiasts either love or hate us. The dependent factor is of course whether they own or wanted one.

In the end I am very respectful of folks who acquire, care for or fully restore, preserve, drive, or most importantly, SHARE the vehicles of desire and otherwise! As we make plans to attend Amelia Island this becomes the great melting pot of all folks who at some level share the same motives. There is a little bit of enthusiast and speculator in every one of us. While the average days of ownership for vehicles in my corral are very low as compared to most, it in no way deflates the level of enthusiasm I have for the vehicles. I can still remember as a 10 year old seeing the one car that sparked my passion, a 1972 Pantera. I had one by 19 on a truck driver's income of less than that per year! Rebuilt the engine myself and sold it at auction for a loss two years later.

Some of my best "Speculator" as some may call them, friends have owned very special cars for years upon years.

For everyone's consideration.

* If you have every been excited about a car you are an ENTHUSIAST!

* If you have ever offered less than someone was asking or rejected what someone offered for your car you are a SPECULATOR.

I think we are enthusiasts first and speculators whenever we buy or sell.

Cheers and thanks for the feedback! I am grateful for all the knowledge available and interaction with folks who are so passionate. It paves the way for all future generations!

By the way, my Countach finally arrives TODAY at noon! I must share with all that I am VERY excited and the last thing in my mind when the door opens on the truck is how much I paid for it or will sell it for!!! It will be parked next to my 1912 Model T Touring.

Cheers, and have a great day.

Thank you to all those who spend the time and provide the support for this forum. Your contributions are amazing Joe!!

 

the cockpit in the 400 is so small. its like driving a go cart

 

Scott, you nailed it.

 

Huh? So when someone offers me a ridulous amount of money for my F40 and I tell them that I'm never selling the car because the car brings me more happiness than any amount of money, I'm a "speculator?"

That makes zero sense.

 

No you are correct, I am wrong.

Your point is properly made and I apologize for making the assumption.

That said, I just unloaded the Rosso Perlato 1990.

Very exciting.

 

Photos please

Cheers Jim

 

1. Looks - The purity-of-line and the overall lithe, skinny, sublime shape of the LP400 is the opposite end from the developed, enhanced, muscular shape the 25th attained.

2. Interior ergonomics - Put it this way, if you are overweight or unfit, the LP400 is not a place to enter. It is sssmall in there, with the roof tunnel reducing headroom even more! I owned 3 of them over the years, and lets say that @ 6' 2", getting in and settling down was, interesting.

3. Driving - The 25th is better than the LP400 in every way describable as soon as the wheels start turning. It is more linear in acceleration, better braked, handles better through the twisties by far. Oh, and its more reliable!

 

u sold it? didn't u just take delivery in mid feb?

what price did you sell it for?

 

I think by "unloaded", followed by "very exciting", he means he just took delivery off the truck.

 

ahhh
got it

 

LOL! That was my immediate thought. I was thinking sheesh that was fast. Then, 2nd thought, figured he took it off the truck.

 

You fellas figured it out. We were referring to unloading the car. I am very pleased with it and offer kudos to all those who cared for it up till now. It is much better than the one we had back in 1996. We have had some VERY interesting things in front of that building over the last 10 years but NOTHING gains the attention of that car. Even for just a few minutes.

Looking forward to seeing the reaction of the public this weekend. Couldn't find a car cover soon enough so we'll at least cover the engine in case of rain. Should look pretty sweet next to our LeMans Red SLS Gullwing on the fairway!

 

She is right at home with the other redheads!

I do love the Rosso Perlato!


http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/images/attach/jpg.gif
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Scott, just curious. Do you know why the seller changed the price on his listing to $525k right after you purchased the car for in the $300k range ???

 

Joes comment ,beaty, is in the eye of the beholder, does have a valid point,looking at the first picture, that being said , awesome car.

 

The color on the Countach looks really nice. The Peterbilt is sweet, I'd love a 359 or 379....

 

I did not ask him to do that and have no idea. Everyone clearly saw what he was asking when I purchase so there was no mystery. I know when I finalized the transaction he had already taken the car off ebay without any changes. So I don't understand how that could have happened after the fact anyway. And I know from personal experience you cannot change a price above your original listing price. I tried a few years ago and the ebay system would not let me do that.

Here are their rules:

Changing your item price on eBay Motors

Nothing about raising the price. So I don't think he had anything to do with it. Maybe that was his original asking price before I ever saw it.

 

Congratulations, looks great.

Cheers Jim

 

Quote from Scott Ales:


Sorry, no disclosure on purchase price. I can tell you however the last one I had I paid $60k for. It was 1996 of course!

Cheers[/QUOTE]

I am a bit confused as to the ad myself. I know that you previously didn't want to mention purchase price on your new Anni and then a friend said the ad was changed to reflect a higher purchase price.

I am just wondering if anyone has a link to the original ad? I respect your right to not disclose purchase price but am left wondering why a 90 Countach with 2000 miles in a rare color sold for $300,000 if that was the purchase price??
It seems values might have changed if true. This is the "Value Thread" so I think it is a relevant question.

Thoughts?

 

Allowing both the seller and myself a bit of privacy by not disclosing the exact value I can share with you all what the spirit of the transaction was. You had a seller with particular motivations outside the automotive spectrum who was taken down the path previously by a tire kicker and, a buyer "Me", who was very motivated to own a great car with a personal history of high risk decisions. I can assure you all, there was no fire sale here. No adjustment of significance to the known current market. And certainly no world record price paid.

It was a very pleasant experience between two passionate persons who both had angst for their particular roles. He really didn't want to sell at the strike price decided upon and when I figured out that I had to pay 2.8% Duty the deal almost fell through. But in the end I had to throw in the towel and just go for it. We used TFX to transport and clear the car through customs which was my first experience with them. I give them high marks. They stayed in contact all along the way and the car arrived yesterday on time, on budget, and without damage.

Seriously, it was a very typical transaction between two car guys at an acceptable market value given the circumstance. No surprises here. Certainly nothing that would rattle anyone who has been paying attention to recent public transactions at auction.

One thing I can share with you is that I received a soft offer (verbal from a broker know to me 15 years) in advance of $500k. I am not interested in selling the car there as I believe they will continue to provide above average returns annually as compared to typical investment opportunities. Today's sale at Bonhams will provide some insight as well as tomorrow's sale at Gooding. Then the Ft Lauderdale sale in a few weeks will also offer a better trend line to follow. They don't need to increase much to beat the yields being offered on Wall Street. Which is partially why you are reading this forum instead of some boring companies financials on ETrade! But even if the next 4 cars at auction sell cheap, I would not let her go for that price because none of them actual compare to my car. Which is just my opinion. I feel the late cars are well away from fully maturing in value.

I am wrong often but less than I have been right. I wise older gentleman shared a thought with me many years ago. He said he was going to offer me his best marital advice, "Be Wrong!". I can tell you from personal experience, he was right. It has never troubled me to admit when I am wrong as proven a few posts prior to this. It's all good.

 

Congrat. While the 25th has been causing controversial conversation about design cleaningless over the years, it is still a very rare car made at 650 or so assuming none was crashed to the point of no return since 1989..

as far as values are concerned, the coming auctions may tell who drove the market. The euro is finally reaching the parity after years of head scratching at $1.30 and above.

But it is possible that at these levels a 30%+ drop in the Euro may not affect the very wealthy European who buy these cars. After all, a net worth going from 130MM to 100MM would not prevent buying a 500K to 1MM car. The Countach could now be in a different market than it was 4 to 15 years ago.