Official Countach Value Thread

Which has happened In recent time with amazing regularity, (Joes words) if the public keeps paying a repetiive price for certain item, does this mean this is what the public is willing to pay? Or does it mean the price should be less due to respect to Joes value guide? Why are we having this discussion? Sales have been steady on the Qv the last year (285 ebay car Colorado) to 460 ish Scottsdale, and the most recent as can be , 335 avg used car with needs Ft Lauderdale. am i missing the boat on this one? Joe,please explain ,why are you on such Warpath against the Countach values? And if your guide have any influence,why plant the negativisme in this small and transparent market?

 

I have not either. May be parted out like one FI that went to Germany a few years back. Im not sure $200K countach will be back and I was a last entrenched soul not beleiving in the price rise.
They are too many lesser cars now that have sold in the 100's of Ks. Look at the price of 3x8 and Testrossa changing hands!. $100K aint what is used to be anymore.

 

Agreed, no $200k Countachs, but @$370k, I'd want a turn-key pristine car. As I said, that's the upper end for that variant for me.

 

True, but its interesting nonetheless, and matters what a Seller is prepared to net.

 

It only matters to you, as you are trying to buy a car to resale. Otherwise, the actual market price would include fees.

One thing is for certain, with all this talk of bubble bursting. Last years Amelia Island saw a nice Down Draft sell for 319K plus fees, this years sale showed a fuel injected version rise to 360K plus fees, when a fuel injected version is purported to be worth much less. So one of two things is clear, either the market continues to rise, or the gap between fuel injected and DD has diminished significantly.

The Amelia QV btw is for sale now for 419K.

 

NO NO NO...cant be setting the "Fixed" market pricing for his own good and advancement...just not possible..HOWEVER is 110% correct as we are BOTH locked into a bidding war on purchasing a car that OF COURSE would be re-sold...

The difference is...when "Joe" goes to "FLip" it..then ALL the comps for the new buyer will be shown as of the recent sales, which OF COURSE will include the "fee's" at an auction o show the "high" price the new buyer should pay....

I guess not ALL of us here are that stupid...

 

The latter for sure, good point.

 

Herein lies the problem.....This car was bought by a flipper/dealer/speculator, as proven by the fact that it is already for sale again! Until real enthusiasts/collectors buy these cars with an intention of keeping them, the market will be wildly unpredicable and not 'real'. When the flippers/dealer/speculators become a minority of the buyers (now they are still the majority), then we will start to see a real market take shape because 'real' markets are populated by a majority of end users with a small minority of dealers helping with liquidity. That is a healthy market, aka 'real', and what we have now is just nonsensical madness stirred up by greedy speculators.

 

EXACTLY.

I know some of my comments make certain Countach owners uncomfortable, but its not intended that way. Few have championed the cause of the Countach more than I have in the past decade, actually, in the past 2 decades, and the cars owned and the Countach thread which I created and continue to contribute to significantly, is small proof of that.

However, there needs to be some logical, impartial, and unbiased input to temper the crazy price talk, or else, that market will suffer even more, as true collectors who drive the market long-term will simply avoid it altogether - as I feel has already happened to some degree.

Hopefully the astute will actually see what I am doing by producing a guide is a contribution towards the long-term stability of the Countach market.

 

Often the net sale proceeds a seller yields at auction is equal to the sale price. Auctions make deals all the time in the effort to get inventory and only capitalize just on the buyer's premium.

Geno

 

Are the auction companies also greedy then? Since they are making 15-20% on every sale. Oh yes, and the brokers who have nothing at risk? How much do they get paid for not putting any cash on the table? Are they greedy for wanting to be paid for their time? I don't think so. How about collectors who stash them away in their buildings where no one ever sees them?

Greed (Latin, avaritia), also known as avarice, cupidity, or covetousness, is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

Seems like those that buy cars and store them away for no one to see for decades at a time are the greedy ones. According to the Wiki definition above at least.

I have had the privilege to drive thousands of very interesting cars over the last 40 years and I can assure you, GREED was not my motivator then and it isn't now. There is a difference between greed and profit. And if someone starts complaining about making a profit on the sale of an asset then maybe they have selected the wrong country to reside in.

I have maintained a dealer's license off and on for the last 30 years and highly recommend it. It is a ton of fun even when you loose money. The most money I ever lost was on a car was the same car I had the most fun driving at Elkhart Lake back in 2005. Making money on it was part of the motivation but I can assure you, the passion of completing the car and driving it was a complete thrill which overshadowed the $40k loss by a mile!

We should all avoid generalizing one another in my humble opinion. I recently met a fellow chat poster and had a pleasant time getting to know him. I'm certain with our common passions we all would get along much better in person!

I don't feel the Countach market is a sad state of affairs, but again, that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty cool that even a 1995 512 TR isn't worth any more than a Countach with the same miles. I guess I'm missing something.

Cheers.

 

It is, as of right now ,18 Ferrari F40s for sale on Mobile.de, are these cars being offered by true collectors ? Obviously,becuase all the scumbags are busy flipping overpriced Countaches,one after the other, hopefully nobody realises they can actually be bought for a lot less, i think,somewhere,some place, at least thats what i am told, that is good to know for you folks out there still looking for one,

 

if there is a sad state of affair, perhaps, behond the speciulators, we should also blame the insurances price guide or other "professionals buyers guide" entities listing these cars at ridiculous low prices. For so long you would see lp400 priced at a level that simply did not exist.

if those prices had any basis, why nor disclose the provenance? Is there a secret society where the car can be had at 1/2 price?

I beleive that for many years the crap seen of "published price" as contributed to the dismissing of them leaving free reign to speculators and no useable baseline.

I have to agree that price range listed in this thread are the closest thing to what appears to be the truth. what else can you rely on?

 

I have always stated that an asset is worth what a given group of persons who have an opportunity to purchase it are willing to pay that day, that moment, with the relative emotions of a specific period of time and set of unique circumstances. Even down to the second!

I also believe the values stated by Joe are a reasonable representation of what we have seen. But no one can claim knowledge as to what will will see. Up or down. Of course.

 

Joes current list is fine,as stated earlier,dont change anything(exept the Dd versus Fi) imo

 

Not all the cars shown are being flipped. Most of the other cars purchased have disappeared. Many are undergoing high dollar restorations as well.

 

Black 87 F/I QV Sold at Auctions America for $335,000 + fees

Red 89 Anniv, no sale at $320k.

 

how many miles on the anny?

 

20,000km. Fresh service.

Black 87 just a driver.. Some visible paint bubbles, front euro conversion not rear, missing windshield wiper, last service in 2008.

 

Up on their site now:
1987 Lamborghini Countach 5000 Quattrovalvole - Fort Lauderdale

1989 Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary Edition - Fort Lauderdale

 

I really don't get all this grumbling about flippers. Whoever the buyers are, the numbers are the numbers.

 

Watching this video will provide some insight as to why these cars will be worth more later than they are today. No one can say when or how much, but absolutely more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mBWDjThVLQ

 

Private party sales have all but disappeared with the evolution of the internet. Just exactly how would one go about finding and buying a Countach privately? Private party sales between retail or long term owners will never represent a significant volume of sales ever again. In any asset class. Doesn't matter if it is a Countach Ford pickup or Riva boat. No one wants to start the buying process by traveling to the asset anymore. Technology has changed that forever. The majority of sales will always be public from here on out, no matter what the asset is.

I guess I am an Un-True Lambo guy because why? I am also a flipper / dealer? Is that the criteria? I don't understand what a True Lambo guy is. Since Lamborghini as a manufacturer created and sold the cars to make money they were also not True Lambo guys?

Doesn't make any sense to me. Not offended, just confused.