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Official Renault Guilty!

Discussion in 'F1' started by senna21, Dec 6, 2007.

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  2. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    No surprise at all. As I pointed out earlier today:

    At least the FIA is consistent for once: McLaren was also found guilty, but no penalty in its first hearing. Same here.

    PS: Will we hear from Mr. Alonso before the week is over?
     
  3. Simon^2

    Simon^2 F1 World Champ
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    So does McLaren now appeal it's penalty, or is it too late...
     
  4. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    +1...as predicted.

    About Alonso...we better hear something...everytime I turn on my machine in the morning, is the first thing I go looking for on the Fchat, Autosport or whatever.com...
     
  5. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    NO PENALTY.

    Betcha Dennis the Menace is fit to be tied. We get the reasons and the transcripts tomorrow 12-7-07. ;)
     
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  7. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    ...I hope we can get the real transcripts just as those that sliped from FIA...so now everyone on the grid can have the same info, and at least, everyone out there will know what secrets were stolen...

    next season should make great fun if the 3 or 4 big teams can get even based on spy scandals
     
  8. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I seem to remember that Ferrari was more than a little upset when McL was not punished. So I would expect Dennis to be furious. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. ;)
     
  9. JohnMinor07

    JohnMinor07 Karting

    Dec 4, 2007
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    Well this isn't the exact transcript but here is an article about the brake bias and what they used for the tires on the F2007. http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/41398/?page=1
     
  10. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    When it spared McLaren from a penalty in July, the WMSC cited “insufficient evidence” that the team had used or benefited from confidential technical information belonging to Ferrari.

    But after new evidence came to light it dramatically overturned that decision, excluding McLaren from the 2007 constructors’ world championship and fining the team $100 million.

    It explained the volte face by saying the new evidence showed that McLaren had committed a more serious breach than was originally appreciated, and that a number of its staff had demonstrated an intention to use the information to its advantage even if it could not prove that they had actually done so.

    So what the difference here is as I see it is they havn't proved that Renault were going to use the info!! what a cop out.

    RD must be blowing a blood vessel.
     
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  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Not a cop out. Justice actually: They treated Renault exactly the same way they treated McLaren.

    *IF* there was ever proof that Renault used the data, they'd be penalized too.

    The only thing that is different and somewhat dubious is the fact, that Toyota never got punished for using Ferrari data. Nor was Red Bull punished when Newey took all his McLaren information with him. But as long as the FIA continues to treat future cases in the same way as they have treated the Renault and McLaren case, it is fair.

    BTW: A good indicator, that the FIA didn't think this was much of a case was the place and time where they had the hearing: Instead of at their HQ it was in a hotel conference room in Monaco. They tied it in with their last annual meeting, which is connected to the trophy ceremony for Kimi etc.
     
  13. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ermm yes of course your right, just I tend to think if it's a MAX v RD he wants to tear a piece out of him as I'am sure alot of people do, and when its personel it aint fair IMO
     
  14. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    Shocking that Renault was not docked all of the constructor points it received in 2007.
     
  15. icky

    icky Karting

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    Ah, but neither was McLaren when they were originally found to have obtained the data, but not proved to have used it. If they did actually use the data from the McLaren 2007 car then they have a whole heck of a lot more problems than we all thought haha.
     
  16. Ambassiatore

    Ambassiatore Formula Junior

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    ...I think is not over Ron, there will be future allegations and appeals... although the emergency proceedings seem to be on Renaults side, RENAULT came forward and said they just found out they had some secret info, then told the FIA to please pick up the floppy disk, then told McLaren they had it, then procedeed to erase all info from the Renault computers with the help from McLaren specialists...they did the thing by the book so I guess that attitude will help them over, compared to the Stepney gate...

    Just a thought.
     
  17. hg

    hg Formula Junior
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    No, I think it is over. Flavio has already threatened McL with a lawsuit for damaging remarks made by Ron Dennis prior to today's hearing and the FIA made Ron Dennis issue a statement yesterday retracting some of these allegations.
    In conclusion if RD keeps his mouth shut, there will be no legal action by Renault.

    I agree with Andreas reasoning regarding the FIA decision.
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    It isn't fair. As I said on the other thread the 2007 Renault has exactly the same radiator design as the McLaren ... thus they did indeed use the data.

    I'm pretty sure that Fab even stated this, and that this was from the discs that the ex-McLaren employee bought to Renault.

    Yet again the FIA are proven idiots. This anti-McLaren bollocks has to stop. I now fully support a break away series run by Ron. Ferrari racing themselves will not look good, even if Max waves the chequered flag himself. Why not hand out the tropheys before the season starts.

    The really stupid thing is Ferrari would be nothing without McLaren being competitive. The only interest is McLaren versus Ferrari, because most other teams are inconsistent with their performance. McLaren and Ferrari for many years have been in the top 4 teams and that is what makes F1 work. Neutering their only competition is just daft.
    Pete
     
  19. dusk

    dusk Formula Junior

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    Ditto,

    I think it sucks. And if you think Renault didn't use the data you still believe in the tooth fairy.
     
  20. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

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    +1
     
  21. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It is not so much a question whether they used the data or not (in one way or the other they did, because they hired the guy). The real question is can you prove it. We all knew that McLaren was guilty of using the data after the first hearing, but it couldn't be proven until all the emails surfaced.
     
  22. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes. We need competion. We don't need cheating.

    Not penalizing a team for cheating encourages others to cheat. That's not good for the sport IMVHO.
     
  23. QT3141

    QT3141 Formula Junior

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    "Professional" wrestling has more integrity than the travesty that is F1.
     
  24. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    i'm actually glad this thing is over. lets get racing again, instead of all this spying crap taking our headlines. bring on 2008, no TC, and slick tyres...............................................................................................................hehehe..ok ok , i was dreaming. :) no slicks ;)
     
  25. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    The excuses used to justify these findings are rediculous. Its about the same as catching a guy who robbed an armoured car with bags of money, and letting him go because you cant prove he spent any.

    I know many of you want to see racing, we all do. But it has to be fair and it has to have rules and the rules have to be enforced, sometimes strickly. As redneck as oval dirt track racing is on a Saturday night, this kind of stealing from one another would not be accepted. We should all expect more from what we all consider to be the pinacle of motor racing. I felt the FIA's first decision against McLaren was wrong, as I feel these findings are wrong. Renault were caught with stolen property, and should be punished appropriately. Its the only way to keep everyone honest and keep the sport legitimate.
     
  26. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    They applied the same penalty to Renault as they did to McLaren in the first hearing.

    I was wondering how they were going to paint themselves out of a corner on this; me with a short memory forgot about the first hearing.

    It's fair.

    Now, if there's some sort of outcry from whomever...and if there's a second hearing brought about with the same level as evidence against Renault as what was brought about in the second hearing over McLaren's spying...then so be it. Hit Renault with a $100m fine, and if they leave the sport because of it, oh well.

    The FIA played their cards nicely in the first hand.

    I was outraged that McLaren got a free pass from the first hearing. Now I see the reasoning behind it.
     
  27. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    What's there to steal? The directions around the track?
     

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