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One weekend + two maniacs = this...

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ricrain, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. ricrain

    ricrain Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    195
    Dallas Area
    Full Name:
    Ric
    OK. So I got bored...

    Here's what my 348 powertrain looks like.
     
  2. donaldh2o

    donaldh2o Karting

    Nov 10, 2003
    143
    Irvine CA
    Full Name:
    Don
    No free weekends forever! Omigod!
     
  3. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
    Full Name:
    Russ Turner
    What will be more interesting is what it looks like 'after'.......
     
  4. Darolls

    Darolls F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 2, 2003
    6,799
    Full Name:
    Sparky
    Ric-

    You must have REALLY been bored!

    Are you bored enough to put it back together again?
     
  5. 328GTB

    328GTB Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2002
    287
    Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Carmine
    Ric,

    I presume this a scheduled teardown?

    Carmine
     
  6. ricrain

    ricrain Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    195
    Dallas Area
    Full Name:
    Ric
    Nope. Just a routine service gone bad. Doing a 30K belt change, I decided to do a leakdown check. The heads need reworking. Off to the machine shop...
     
  7. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,940
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Great pic. I almost missed this thread because it didn't say "348" in the heading.

    What kind of leakdown numbers did you get? Did the heads look "carboned up", or wear & tear? Was it running normally? Tell us more!
     
  8. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    Great pic, Rick.
    Thanks for posting. I'll be watching this one as I'd like to do my own 348 Twin Turbo major service next winter.
     
  9. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    Hey 348 Turbo,
    How much power does your 348 turbo make? How much boost? Did you use F40 turbos or something else? I have heard you can put a 348 motor in an F40 and have a "big block" so to speak. Do you know anything about this?

    Rick
     
  10. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    the 348 Turbo is a Norwood twin turbo setup. It is Motec controlled and variable boost capable. I normally drive it around at just under 15 lbs. At 3000 rpms, it makes just 1 lb. It makes 350 hp at the wheels as shown on the dyno. If it made as much boost as the f-40, (my understanding about 24lbs), it could likely be tuned for similair horsepower. It would still be though much heavier. My car wieghs about 3100 lbs , (it has been lightened some). Keep in mind my car has been built from the block out as a turbo car by Norwood, not just a simple add on. It is not just a 348 engine with a turbo setup, so we mat be talking apples and oranges.....................
    The turbos are Turbonetics T-2's...........
     
  11. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,933
    socal
    Ric,

    Do you have a name and adress for a good Ferrari motor/head rebuilder? These guys are rare!
     
  12. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    I can recommend Norwoods in Dallas. They do it every day and have a good reputation. James is an upfront kind of guy and does a great job at fair prices. Also, an F-Chat sponsor. I'm sending my 348 there next week.
     
  13. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    Stock F40 is 1.1 bar gauge, 16.17 psi.
    Stock USA F40 is just over 3000 lb.
    Turbonetics is awesome, built up some T3/4 40 trim ball bearing hybrids for an F40 project for me.


    Billybob:

    You want to ship your components? Bertil's in Antioch, Illinois did alot of engines for me in my past. Ted Wentz is awesome, too; he's in CT. Ditto Norwood's.

    Stock rebuild? Many dealers with Challenge programs are good too (I know your opinion of the dealer network), might not hurt to call for estimates though if one's close to you.


    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  14. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    Stock F-40 3000 lbs? Really? One of our club members has a pristine F-40 and I could swear he told me it wieghed in at about 2500 lbs. Either I was mistaken or someones been fibbing....................

    1.1 bar? Perhaps. This same guy, (the F-40 owner), claims that his car makes 24lbs boost and is 478 WHP. My 348 runs 14.8 lbs of boost and makes 350 WHP.
    So, there must be some MAJOR differences in internals to bring on these types of descrepencies. Or someones been fibbing....................
     
  15. 328GTB

    328GTB Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2002
    287
    Texas, USA
    Full Name:
    Carmine
    Ric, we want more pictures.

    Carmine
     
  16. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877

    Ric,
    I hate to break this to you..... My STOCK F40 makes 16+ boost and 400rwhp on a dynojet dyno. We removed the Cats and installed a Tubi and boost is up to 20psi. I may have had bad cats. We haven't dynoed again, but I expect over 435rwhp.....
    Yes, a U.S. car weighs 2980lbs.....

    Rob,
    Ever hear of the 348 bottom end in an F40?

    Rick
     
  17. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

    From several sources, Road & Track, Car & Driver, Stanley Nowak's book "Ferrari on the Road"

    F-40
    478 hp @ 7000
    435 lb-ft @ 4000
    2425 Curb weight (generally accepted that factory 'curb weight' means no fluids, no passengers)

    If you want to see what a little tinkerin can do, read the Dec 2002 Forza. 455 hp at the rear wheels with Tubi Comp exhaust and computer adjustments.
     
  18. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    Bryon,
    I believe that weight was for the early Euro cars. Plastic windows, no Cats or 5 mph crash bumpers Etc.....

    Rick
    PS. Can you Email me a copy of that article?
     
  19. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    Gentlemen,

    I stand by my numbers as I am not quoting sources other than Ferrari and my own data gathering. I worked in the dealer network for a decade. Look up February 1990 C+D for specs: 3016 lb, no driver, no fuel. My own notes, 3002lb, no fuel, no driver.

    Now, it was also fairly easy to remove 200 lb. from a US F40 without cutting into structure. I believe a euro F40 may weigh only 2600 lb, I've not measured one myself other than F40LM, and it was quite feathery.

    1.1 bar is factory specification. It's not in the WSM. It's easy to tweak the boost, lot's of F40s are running higher than stock boost, the fuel shut-off comes in at about 1.6 bar (24psi), and it's easy to misquote specifications, especially when "more is better."

    I've weighed the cars, I've tested the manifold pressure, I've modified the cars.

    Best regards,

    Rob
     
  20. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    New one on me, I wish I had the components sitting here to measure. More torque, more HP. Hmmm.

    Ps. Thanks for the data.
     

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