Mark... For a year, i sat and either took the high road or engaged in a battle of wits... Where did it get me...? Nowhere... Needlessly, i still have to wade through unnecessary comments... i took responsibility and "thought about it from an adult point of view" by apologizing to all of those people who i INADVERTENTLY offended... It's amazing how other people can make racist, sexist, homophobic comments day in and day out and almost never have to hear a word from anyone else, but i pull out all the stops with profanity on ONE OCCASION and everyone wants to bust my chops... i'm pretty popular, though, you have to admit; people log in under stupid names JUST to take shots at me, but that stuff isn't touched on (case in point: our newest member, assclown chat); i try a DIFFERENT approach to senseless garbage gratuitously thrown my way and now i don't hear the end of it... Nice... i'm put down and ridiculed merely because i'm enthusiastic yet the people who do it walk through virtually (sorry the pun) unscathed... Maybe if i were an owner, it would be different... Tim, i was waiting for you to jump on the anti-NNO bandwagon... What took you so long...? That's right, what i did was wrong, boo hoo, so i said a few @#$%ing curse words, big deal... Were they unwarranted...? Rob wasn't exactly "maintaining the value of the site" by banning the people who were breaking my shoes, but all of a sudden i get dirty with the mouth (to prove a few points that only a few people saw) and all the NNO haters come out to play... What is it about me that bothers you folks so much...? Is enthusiasm a bad thing...? Is there a certain marque i should be bashing...? Am i not sexist or racist or homophobic enough to be "one of the guys"...? Tell me, i'm really intrigued and curious to know, in an elementary school sort of way... Dave, i hope you don't split... i think Rob was trying to use you as an example (partly in jest), hoping you'd take it in stride and that didn't work out...
As one of the two that was recently banned, i agree that an e-mail alerting me to the fact would have been desired. Like Mman, had to clear all cookies and only upon seeing the thread did i realize what transpired. Unlike Mman, i fully accepted the consequences of my actions and adhered to the 24-hour ban. As i COULD assume, literally, millions of "personalities" as owning a mail server and many URLs means i can easily become "different" people, that would have NOT been the right thing to do. MMan obviously felt different and acted accordingly. Instead, i patiently waited the 24 hours. This allowed me time to THINK... and to also find ways of not just self improvement, but also an idea how to improve Fchat (see http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=122291#post122291). We each have ways of dealing with life. For me, it is about enjoyment and in being of service to others. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin
And where did getting in a flame war get you? Nowhere. Im not attacking you in any way. I dont have anything against you. The reason i said what i said was because i am rational enough to have an objective opinion, rather than blindly taking your side like some people do. There are some things i agree with you on and some things i dont.
I disagree! I think that your behavior prior to that unfortunate incident was a model of gentlemanly conduct. I also think that it might, in some part, account for the great treatment you've received from so many members of this community. Yes, you are an Uber Ferrari enthusiast. We all know that. You are also an intelligent, well mannered member of society and THAT goes a long way. Sure, we all fly off the handle at times. It's natural. The ability to maintain one's composure in the rough times is something that I respect. Class never goes out of style. Your Friend, Augustine
i clearly see Dave's point. I do wish to point something out: This chat is getting younger and younger. A good many of the older enthusiasts who owned cars, who dealt with life with a little more seriousness have left. Sometimes that was good, but overall I think it dropped the quality of the board. We now have 20 - 30% of the people on her as teenagers. While that may see ok, I think it destroys the purpose of the board: for Ferrari owners (and enthusiasts) to exchange ideas which a common bond. It appears to me that Rob could have done a better job of leting Dave know that he was going to enforce this rule, and I'm sure that Dave would have played by the rules. Remember however, that Dave has access (and he has yet to tell where he finds them) to these various animations and pictures which has become his trademark here. The loss of Dave to this board will leave it without an adult with strong views (so of which I disagree with) and an articulate method of presenting them. Is Dave perfect, no way, but he sure is an asset to the board and we'll miss him if we can keep him here. I suggest that Rob or Dave pick up the phone (since you're both in Texas, it shouldn't cost much, but if you feel its too expensive, I'll pay for the call), and work this out. How about it guys? DES: this isn't about you, its about Dave. I'd concentrate on seeing what we can do to keep him here. Art
_I suggest that Rob or Dave pick up the phone (since you're both in Texas, it shouldn't cost much, but if you feel its too expensive, I'll pay for the call), and work this out. How about it guys?- I'd prefer in keeping with the melodramatic theme of the board that kissing to make up would be more in tune. I'm gone, I'm back, no I'm gone again, then a nice long deep kiss on the lips ala: Britney/Madonna is more in touch with the soap operaness of this saga. Could this be the season ending cliffhanger we've all been waiting for? AssClownChat.com ps: NNO..you are playing me like a fiddle...I believe every word out of your gutter mouth.
An enthusiast lost his patience one day. The enthusiast thought he was doing the right thing by letting the poop hit the fan. He apologized. He's treated as some sort of pariah(?)(!) Trolls, who know they're not doing the right thing by letting the poop hit the fan - must be laughing their arses off. You know, when I was in Elementary School, I took a lot of grief for wearing Hearing Aids. From the new guys, especially. For some reason, they thought they could start some **** with me, and the best way to do that and establish themselves as Alpha-Male classmates to one and all would be by aiming squarely at one of my Hearing Aids or another - from behind - with a closed fist. Without either of us have exchanged a pleasantry before - sometimes, even on the very first day of their sojourn at this school. Incidentally, nobody ever hit me from the front while in Elementary School. Those that tried, simply ended up on the ground, crying. Broken hearing aid, bleeding ear or not - I never cried about it. I took their punishment and I dished it out on them. I broke numerous arms and legs, but none of them were ever mine. None of them were ever belonged to people who did nothing to me. Classmates may have witnessed the carnage, but they never criticized me for doing what was right - giving more punishment to those who deserved it than I DEServed. By the time I was in High School, I already had a record of 50-0. I did not have a chip on my shoulder nor an agenda, but I did have a happy-go-lucky attitude, though my 2 often-hit, often-destroyed Hearing Aid's tiny components were now pieced together into 1. Enter the *other* Elementary School into the picture. Some guys thought the best way to introduce themselves was to do the same as those who'd preceded them. And they came in spades (that doesn't sound right). The "worst" were the goat-ropers. There were a lot of goat-ropers. One was appointed to take me on. An important aspect of this is, my father, a godly man, who would ground me for fighting the good fight - just to make sure I didn't start fights. So I didn't. However, he had given me permission to do anything and everything under one circumstance: If I was insulted 7 times 7 times 7 in one day. That's 343 times in one day. I was insulted 343 times in one day by the appointee by the time the lunch hour came to a close. "Okay, that's it" I said. He went full into a striking mode. I destroyed him in front of the whole school just as the lunch hour was ending. 400 students cheered madly as I completely and utterly destroyed him. Let's just say the finale was his head meeting a combination locker, with me giving his exhausted self a push/pull running start from 15 feet away. Bloody mess, broken locker. The rest of the goat-ropers were nice to me from then on. I knew it could very easily have turned the other way, where the offending party would be treated nicely, and I, the ogre who let it all hang out could be treated as a pariah. He never came back - his brothers said he dropped out. 15 years later, I saw the goat-roper who'd received my punishment in a pizza joint at the bar with his biker-gal - he was a biker, you see - and Baby, had he grown. Standing a full 6 inches taller at 6'5", certainly in shape with his prison-enhanced muscular frame, I walked up to him, and nicely said "Hi, Tony" - hoping we could talk and all would be forgiven from both parties. His reaction was to turn white as a sheet. Though it was paid for, he left the pitcher of Coors on the bar, grabbed his ol' lady and left - in a hurry - like the proverbial Hell-Hound was on his trail. The pizza wasn't even half-eaten, but it stayed on the table. She was yelling at him all the way out. Damn, that beer was good. Bottom line: DES, NNO, Carbon - call him what you may - took ****, and a lot of it. Then he dished it out. I respect him for that.
I'm in a WIN - WIN situation. If moderation works then I can thank the users that suggested it and the board will be better. If not, then we can stop it and I can say I told you so! Dave, not sure which rules you were reading... A few points, please address individual ones if a problem. 1) The reason there's not a consistent moderation is as several have already stated. I haven't had the capacity to overlook the entire board. I guess you can call it making an example. Up to this point I could take one visible action that would clarify our "informal" rules. 2) This was just a test. Maranelloman and Enjoythemusic are both respected long time users. I even stated this was a test in my edit and one actually handled it like I expected both would. Steven is the type of user I really appreciate in FerrariChat.com. The test was to discover things like how the ban was systematically communicated to the user. We need some improvements here. 3) We haven't actually started the new philosophy on moderation yet. As I've said, we will clearly state the "rules" of the community beforehand. That would only be fair. 4) I have no problem with nudity. As I always say, please email them to me. FerrariChat.com is not a porn site though. A PG rated bikini thread is perfectly fine and strongly encouraged. 5) I have to consider FerrariChat.com as a complete community and not a few individuals. It may be possible to have private "niche" forums, even a "porn" forum with special security to get in. However, we're not there yet. 6) Please show me where I said "no penetration" Dave. Even if I did long ago, the above rules would overrule that. You had many posts in that same thread where I posted the rules at least 3 times. Do you not have a good memory or are you just disrespecting me and making my life hard? Some of you take this board and what happens on it way too serious. As I always say, I'm the only one that should.
Rob, I am about as far away from trying to dis you & make your life hard. I guess I do not have a "good memory", to use your turn of phrase. Listen, man, if you expect folks to remember "rules" you post in obscure threads 6 months ago, PUT THEM IN THE DAMED TERMS OF USE. The TOU are the ONLY enforceable rules here. Until the above are in the TOU, they are merely gumflapping...and to expect folks to remember that is unreasonable, at best. As I acknowledge, I obviously did not remember those posts of yours from last August (imagine that). You want people to adhere to new rules? PUT THEM IN THE TOU. Capisce? You want respect & a better response? Then (a) tell Steve & me that you are running a test, and we are the guinea pigs. I have no problem with that, if notified. But the onus is on YOU to do this. I did my part. You did not. And (b) treat everyone under the same standard. My original post stands: You ban me (and in the past have yanked similar non-obscene posts from me within 10 minutes) yet you allowed the whole DES vs. DES haters thread to go on & on & on & on for an eternity. Which is worse, Rob? My girly pic or that gutter sludge? If you cannot answer that, and keep backpedaling & defending, well, I don't know what to say. But when you are on the verge of charging folks for a site that takes ads too, well, I guess folks expect a more even hand. You cannot play favorites, and yet you and/or the other Admins clearly did. Now, that is the perception of me & others, but clearly not yours. Nevertheless, we all choose our own actions, hence my choice to depart. I still like you alot, man, and am truly empathetic of how hard it must be to run a huge, complicated site like FC while working a full time, strenuous job. But, to quote you, "this crap has got to stop". Goodbye.
The rules shouldnt have to be in the terms of use. Not posting nudity should be common sense. Its rob's board and he can run things however he sees fit. He has more than proven that he can run a board. I think temporary bannings should increase, as things have gotten out of hand. The terms of use probably change with robs mood. if you dont like the way it is, dont post. You already said you were 'through with Fchat for a while' and now you get angry about getting banned for ONE DAY? You seemed to be fine during your 3 or 4 day haitus after your lashing-out-for-attention "through with fchat for a while" post.
Welcome back Dave. Whoops. I guess he's leaving (again). Hope you are stilling reading though. ROB: Dave has a point, not so much about the TOU, but about not being hipped to the fact that he was a test bunny. Whaddya say. Let's call this a good display of how enforcement now works. (There's a new gun in town. HNMNNM).And, i say, we give Dave one get out of jail free card, to be used to display one set of ______ (that is, two knockers, whether a matched pair or two individual mams from an unmatched set) with impunity.
Our Deer Dave, Good-bye sounds so forlorn. Please don't go Dave, there has been but a trite misunderstanding. The omnipotent ROB had to have a Knight of the Junk Yard Dog Pack to make an example of for the rest of the Kingdoms subjects. Yes, DES would have been the natural choice of course, when his inner being he so readily exposed to the world turned out to be very disturbed, sick and twisted. But in this Kingdom, political allies, agendas and fears rule who must be used as the pawn of example for the subjects and when those examples are needed. It should be recognizable to you now that you never were ROBs equal but simply another subject of the Kingdom that had a use. Your use has now been subjugated to second place behind DES, who obviously outranks you in Robs Hierarchy of the Kingdom. This is not the time for hurt feelings as you still have a use as a loyal subject if you so choose. If you feel slighted by having to serve under DES in the Kingdoms Junkyard Dog Battalion remember that ROBs goals should always come before your own. ROBs goals are in your best interest and therefore conforming is in your best interest. You love it here Dave and we love you, if you go where would you go to? Who would the 40-50% of the high schoolers and tune towners here have to look up to? Who would ROB find to replace you? AssClownChat.com
I've learned that sometimes there are people that don't get it and never will. I don't loose sleep over those people, but I can't help but think things would be easier for them if they did. I gave a good effort. If you can't learn from 3 posts in a thread you were heavily participating in, I don't think you can learn from anywhere. Remember, I had some minor problems with you too on enforcing the avatar rules that were clearly stated where you upload the avatar (reminds me I need to update that after the software upgrade last week probably removed that). Up to this point I guess I gave users more credit towards common sense. That "common sense" will be part of clear forum rules easily accessible, unlike the TOU. Until these rules are in place we won't enforce any different than we have in the past. That has included removing pictures from the bikini thread (I've probably removed more than a dozen photos before). Also, if we had our rules in place, then no doubt NNO and a few others would of received temp bans. What I think is good for the community is not all that different from what most of you think, that's why most of what I do works and if not, we back up. Well, it was partly a test, but mostly just an inappropriate picture. I didn't even think enough of a test to take extra effort and notify you of it. I covered the NNO post above, but posting the "girly" pic is a clear violation of common sense to most. We even posted the bikini thread rules a few times for those lacking a little common sense. The rules around "flaming" has not been clearly defined and is harder to define what crosses the line. Although I knew what was going on had gone way past the line, my philosophy with flame wars is sometimes stepping in only intensifies it. Where posting a nude picture is obviously not the best for a public forum with kids, women, and others with anti-porn views reside. It was called a Bikini Thread! No warning otherwise. Not smart at all Dave. I think you are ahead of me here. Your key word is "verge" of charging. I don't have clear rules in place and I don't have additional resources yet to make an "even hand". That will be my goal when we're ready. Please, let me know if there have been other nude pics posted. I don't know of any. Each post has a "report this post". That's the quickest way to get ahold of the moderators. I like you too and I know you'll be back, probably next week. I hope the crap really does stop. Thanks for your feedback. Anyone, please still tell me how I'm in the wrong? I agree I should of notified better, but that was part of the little "test". I will improve that before we go live with it. I will also hope to moderate with an "even hand". I explained above why we aren't quite there yet. Anything I missing here?
Rob: You answered your own question: you should have told him before that it was a test. Dave has been around quite a while. Like all of us, he isn't perfert (but he's still a pretty good guy) and so, I can easiy see how he got upset, and you could have avoided same by the use of a little tact. An example: wife puts on terrible looking dress, you don't tell her that, you suggest that she'd look better in something else (I don't mean anything by this example, other than to point out tact works better some times). Rob you have created something of value here, and Dave is a respected member of the community, so I think that you are correct about the issue of frontal nudity (except where pointed out in either the title or the thread), however, it was a change that few of us expected, regardless of the prior warnings. Just jy .02 worth. As to A$$CLOWN who are you, why are you unwilling to show who you are? Art
Yes Art, I did learn from this entire thing. Actually, I kinda knew before I did it what would happen. As much of the test was to see how everyone reacted to it vs. testing how it systematically worked. Maybe that's why I didn't give them a heads up. Maybe I wanted to "test" what the REAL responses were going to be. After February 28th when we have the hard rules in place there will be many 1 day bans. I think this was the perfect "test" as it showed the complete range in possible reactions. Steven's passive introspective and come back with a value adding idea for the community vs. Dave's "WTF - I quit!". Whether anyone recognizes it or not, this entire experience was very educational for me as the admin and will ultimately be very beneficial for our community. In closing, as I think this thread is about over... I am not above or beyond the community in any way. I'm just the interface that tries to implement what the community thinks is best. If I was just a user and didn't have to maintain this headache of a site every day, I would probably be one of the most banned users.
MMan, Love ya and all, and yes an e-mail notification would have been nice, we both knew why we were banned. You decided, after knowing why you were banned, to use another alias during the 24 hour period and keep on going. AM NOT TAKIUNG SIDES and the rules are rules. We you and i suffering due to "taxation without representation?" Perhaps, yet we must remember that posting here is a PRIVLEDGE and Rob owns this sand box. As the King, All Knowing, Controlling person of a few web properties, have had to deal with various situations over these many (many, many, damn these grey hairs due to frustration) many years. One day ban is so minor is the scheme of life. Heck, i can do 30 in the three hots and a cot standing on my head. But anyway... Must admit was surprised to see you go back online with another alias. Frankly, it weaken your "hand." Yes were subject to a test, and yes we both experienced something we were not accustom to on Fchat. Yet it was fairly easy to see what happened, as you admitted to seeing the banning notice just as i also realized the situation. Some battles are worth fighting for, while others are like small grains of sand in the large hourglass of time/life. Was i upset, yes and no. Personal responsibility for ones actions is key. We can agrue about the rules until the cows come home, yet this is an American forum and as such are subjected to the way repressed American's generally handle nudity. Fact is, this is one of the many reasons why i hope to live in Italy. Alas, need to run as my gal just got out of the shower and requires my, er um, attention upstairs. Enjoy the Eve Mman my friend. i TRULY like your style and yes, the human body is something to be celebrated. And on THAT note, i have, er um, celebration to do upstairs Enjoy the, eh hem, Drive, Steven R. Rochlin NOTE: Not proofread, i have other things to do
lmao Steve, i kept cheering for you by yelling for you to stop typing already!!! i hope you have a great valentines weekend, sounds like you are off to a great start. !!! thanks for the chuckle!
Art, i can assure you that nothing i could possibly say would keep Dave here; nor was i ever trying to make this about me, however, my name has come up more than a few times in here and i just want to make sure that whatever's attached to it is accurate; i have a bad enough rep as it is... Wax, thank you very much; that was a cool story and, hopefully, got a point across... Augustine; like Hubert (and his comments in another thread re: this), you're right... Still i wonder how many people really saw the point i was trying to make... Maybe i just didn't make it well enough... Either way, it's over; thanks for the kind words- i love you, too.
You have pretty selective memory. Why do you think your other "similar non-obscene posts" were yanked?
Com'on Art! You stated 'Just jy .02 worth'. That was actually about eighty bucks of your time! Ps; Watch the weather Tuesday. May be a bit dicey to fly. I'm on for dinner.
<RANT>Not that I want to get involved with any side here but from being involved with various car forums and running my own site for the past 3+ years I have learnt that people will self moderate; there is no reason to delete anything unless it is disguisting (dead person) or a super offensive (racist term) picture. Opinions/thoughts will come out no matter what, it's the internet; if you don't like it, go back to your cave. PEOPLE POST PORN. It happens. PEOPLE POST CURSES. It happens too. In the real world (which includes the internet) people aren't G, PG or even PG13 and if you say that your head is never in the gutter you're lying. Everyone enjoys a pretty naked girl, and everyone enjoys a dirty joke; people don't enjoy bickering- and that will come from unnecessary personal attacks made because someones ego is to big to take it off the site or through PM. It's 2:10AM and I'm exhausted, I've had a long weekend in California (get the violins lol) and I'm probably not making any sense. </RANT> Moral of the post: People will do what they want regardless, let them unless its extremely distasteful. If you have a bone to pick with an individual, TAKE IT OFF THE SITE. If not, GET OFF THE SITE. It's a car forum, not a fight club.
I don't understand the need to keep it at a prudish PG level. Fchat isn't being sponsored by Disney. And the consumers aren't kids.
