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Overview Michelin Tire variants for 599 GTB and 599 GTO

Discussion in '612/599' started by DZ-96, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

    Mar 7, 2010
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    Daniel
    Hi all

    To get a better overview about the Michelin tire variants in GTB and GTO sizes, I made a small excel sheet.
    Perhaps the situation in the USA is different to the German market.

    There you can see, that's it's not possible to get the 305/35 in any Ferrari configuration, only the old PS2 is available.

    If you run the 245/35 front tire with the 315/35 rear tire, you can choose between SuperSport and Sport 4S, with the 255/35 at the front, which I have in combination with the 315/35, only the SuperSport is available.

    Much less variants for the GTO sizes.
    The 285/30 is only available as SuperSport.
    So you haven't the possibility to fit the GTO rims with the newer Sport 4S.

    With a 275/35 it would be possible to go with the Sport 4S.
    But I don't know if this works (especially on a GTB which is fitted with GTO rims).

    Who knows the difference between K1 and K2 ?
    Is there a problem to mix K1 and K2 at front and rear (not per 1 axle) ?

    How important is the K marking ?

    How much better is the Sport 4S against the older SuperSport (which is an excellent tire) ?

    Will Michelin produce the 285/30 in Sport 4 S config in the near future ?
    There are minimum 500 GTO clients all over the world which would be happy to choose the more modern Sport 4 S, I think.


    Daniel
     

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  3. odf911

    odf911 Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2013
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    The K tyres are as I understand essentially the same tyres but with less thread to save weight. Not sure about any other differences - compound maybe? That would explain k1 vs k2. The 275 would fit the GTO wheels. I had 255 and they worked (same config as f12) though IMO they look too small for the rim so I swapped for the 285. In the UK, GTO tyres are only available in MPSS not 4s. Michelin confirmed that to me. All together 4s is a better tyre at least in comparison test ... Maybe in the future?
     
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  4. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    I think it's not advised to mix different tyre types (e.g. better avoid mixing K1 front with K2 rear) but OTH as long as the sizes / loads are compatible with the original spec, it's possible to go for standard (i.e. no K-marking) or even a spec from another manufacturer (e.g. Porsche N0).
    The PS4S is supposed to be a significant improvement over the PSS, so it might be better to go for a standard PS4S even if a specific K-marked PSS is available.
    The PS4S exists in 285/30/20 with 99Y load rating but the corresponding rear dimension (315/35/20 110Y) does not exist without marking, it would come either as K1 or ND0 apparently... There is a standard PS4S in 315/30/20 but it's with only 104Y load.
     
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  5. Justin Hughes

    Justin Hughes Rookie
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    I was advised recently not to Mix K1/K2 as they have different tire wall strengths and should match for Insurance purposes.

    Still deciding what to do as I can no longer get non K1/K2 MPSS in the UK at all.
     
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  6. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Thanks for the input.

    I think I will go with the SuperSport in original GTO sizes.
    I can wait until April, perhaps Michelin throws out the 4S until then.

    Can't await getting them on the car, GTB with GTO wheels and 6-1 headers.
    Should be perfect for people who can't afford an original GTO.
    :)

    Daniel
     
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  8. Justin Hughes

    Justin Hughes Rookie
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    Sorry - i should have added that unless the MP4S come in matching Ks series they should be avoided as they also wont have the sidewall strength the car needs
     
  9. odf911

    odf911 Formula Junior

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    I can confirm that Michelin told me not to use the 4s on my 599 ...
     
  10. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Reasons ?

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  11. odf911

    odf911 Formula Junior

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    I was told - without detail - that they don’t meet Ferrari specifications and therefore are not homologated. Knowing insurance companies that might be something they would check in case of an accident ...
     
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  13. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    Could be different in the UK post-Brexit but I believe that in Europe there is no way manufacturer approval could be enforced for accessories like tyres, as far as size and load are the same as the original spec - in France the Michelin web site proposes the MPS4S with no K-marking for the 488 GTB, along with the K-marked PSS and PSC2.
    The issue though for the MPS4S is that it does not seem to exist in the correct spec for the 599 in a consistent set front / rear (without any manufacturer marking, the rear size falls short in load - 104 vs 110 - whereas the correct load cannot be matched with a front set having the same manufacturer marking).
     
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  14. odf911

    odf911 Formula Junior

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    That may be the case as I only asked the question in relation to the 599 ..
     
  15. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    In Germany, about 20 years ago, it was possible to limit the manufacturer and model of tires for a specific car.
    Between 2000 and 2005 (I don't know the exact date) it was canceled by law.

    How should you limit tire manufacturer and model for a car, when after some years the model doesn't exist ?

    In my old documents of my Maserati Ghibli 2,0 there are Bridgestone Potenza S-02 fixed as required and legalized tire.
    In this period, i had to buy this tire model and no other.

    Interesting details about the Michelins !!!
    So i will go for the original Pilot SS for the 599 GTO.

    Daniel
     
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  16. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Im a little confused- if I look at tire rack (a big US tire website)

    I see the standard spec Michelin Super Sport for 599 GTO is as follows:

    Front: 285/30/20 XL 99Y 300 AA A K1- Ferrari
    Rear: 315/35/20 XL 110Y 300 AA A K1- Ferrari

    If we look at Michelin 4S tires they are available as:
    Front: 285/30/20 XL 99Y 300 AA A (non K1/ regular)
    Rear: 315/35/20 XL 110Y 300 AA A K1- Ferrari

    Granted, it would be best to get K1 all around, but the front have the same size, load range, service designation, and UTQG

    I would think its not too crazy to run the 4S tires- but maybe I am missing something.


    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?tireIndex=0&autoMake=Ferrari&autoYear=2011&autoModel=599+GTO&autoModClar=&frontWidth=285%2F&frontRatio=30&frontDiameter=20&frontSortCode=60100&rearWidth=315%2F&rearRatio=35&rearDiameter=20&rearSortCode=60200

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+4S&sidewall=Blackwall&autoMake=Ferrari&autoYear=2011&autoModel=599%20GTO&autoModClar=&rearTire=135YR0PS4SXL&i1_Qty=2&tab=Sizes
     
  17. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    Thank you for posting this thread. My 599 needs tires desperately in the spring and I've been wondering what I’m going to do....NOT a fan of the 4S tire....I tried it on my DB9 and HATED THEM. Actually returned them to Tire Rack and they sourced me a different tire. My Panamera wore Pilot SuperSports which are far superior tires, but they don’t make them for the 599 and I’m not sure I want to go with another set of Pirelli PZeros......what to do?
     
  18. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim- First person I have heard that did not like MPS4S tires. You sure you did not put Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires on your DB9? Completely different tire.

    I love my MPS4S tires even more than the old MPSS ones.
     
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  19. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Take the 255/35 - 315/35 combination which works good on a GTB.
    These you can get as PSS with K1 marking.

    Daniel
     
  20. Justin Hughes

    Justin Hughes Rookie
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    I was advised it was down to the tyre wall rigidity & strength here in the UK.
     
  21. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    My understanding is there is no difference in such. That is what those ratings go to address. The load ratings, etc. I could be wrong I am not an expert, but this is what I am told.

    I love the 4S tires, I think they are a big leap forward over the SS and actually, I think they are far superior to the Cup2 tires for a street use- but if you don’t like them- we don’t all like the same things after all- and want to look, the Pirelli P Zero 4 tires are very good also.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
  22. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    Yep, 100% positive. (Just looked up the receipt) My Tire Rack guy who I used for years moved on to a new role at T.R. and I got a new guy for this sale back in June 2019. We got into a very heated argument over the phone when he told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and that I was on the 'better tire'.....(that didn't go over well!). The DB9 felt like it was on marshmallows.....very unsettling. I had them source me a set of Pilot Sport PS2's much to the new sales rep's chagrin and they are excellent on that car. That same year I put a new set of MPSS' (my 3rd) on my Panamera and they are a wonderful tire! I'd prefer those on my 599, but we're going to have to see what's available.
    I reached back out to my old T.R. guy after the debacle and he said that he has had some complaints from the Porsche crowd on the MPS4S tires feeling very "squishy" for the first 500 miles or so, then they begin to break in.

    Jim
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jim- Mine were never squishy, but you have to do what you like. Three generation old PS2s are not what I would have considered. More like Contis and never Pirellis.
     
  24. jimshadow

    jimshadow F1 Rookie
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    Totally get it. I had to make a Michelin for Michelin trade and that was my only option aside from an all season tire which I was not going to do. I also had the option of a shaved race style tire (forget the model), but I take the car on long trips and I didn’t want that option either.

    jim
     
  25. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    No it is not too crazy to run those tires. However, I probably would have paired the general purpose front up with the general purpose rear. The 315 is available in a non-K spec. K spec has nothing to do with quality or the like, or special compounds for that matter. That 4S K1 was specifically developed for the 812, so there's absolutely no guarantee that it would be better for the 599 GTO than the regular spec tyre.

    Using the K1 rear will more than likely work fine. It will probably add a bit of understeer as the Ferrari spec tyres are somewhat dialed in for this. For this reason tend to prefer general purpose versions when they are not for that specific model. As touched upon earlier K spec does not mean for Ferrari in general, it is for a specific model. The general purpose tyres are mroe likely to be "neutral" and that can easily be an advantage.

    The original MPSS GTO tyre was very unique. It had a different compound, it was shaved, had a wider tread etc. It was nothing like the K2 for the F12. Again, for this reason I would probably not choose the 812 variant for the GTO.
     
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  26. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3

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    Thanks for this input.

    Because I'm very satisfacted with PSS K1 on the 550 in 255/40-18 and 295/35-18 and on the 599 in 255/35-20 and 315/35-20, I will go with the GTO spec tires on the GTO rims.

    Daniel
     
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  27. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Daniel- Just watch for oversteer if really pushing her with those big front tires. The GTO suspension was set up to take advantage of those big fronts, but your GTB is not.
     
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  28. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
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    Personally, I like the larger front by I have HGTE and I steer with the throttle (one of the reasons I hate turbos). Love trailing throttle oversteer.
     

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